The Pizza Bomber Heist: The Astonishing Story of Brian Wells and the Collar Bomb Conspiracy

In this episode of The Compendium, I tell Adam the horrifying yet intriguing case of the Pizza Bomber Heist. On August 28, 2003, Brian Wells, a pizza delivery driver in Erie, Pennsylvania, was coerced into robbing a PNC Bank with a bomb locked around his neck as part of a horifying life or death scavenger hunt. This shocking event led investigators into a labyrinth of conspiracies involving Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong and Bill Rothstein. The case, often likened to a real-life "Saw" movie, remains one of the most intricate in FBI history.​

We give you just the Compendium, but if you want more, here are our resources:

• Death of Brian Wells - Wikipedia​​
• Evil Genius: The True Story of America's Most Diabolical Bank Heist (2018) - Directed by Barbara Schroeder
• Pizza Bomber: The Untold Story of America's Most Shocking Bank Robbery - by Jerry Clark  and Ed Palattella​
• The Story Of Brian Wells And The ‘Pizza Bomber’ Bank Robbery - allthatsinteresting​

Host & Show Info

• Hosts: Kyle Risi & Adam Cox
• About: Kyle and Adam are more than just your hosts, they’re your close friends sharing intriguing stories from tales from the darker corners of true crime, the annals of your forgotten history books, and the who's who of incredible people.
• Intro Music: Alice in dark Wonderland by Aleksey Chistilin

Community & Calls to Action

• ⭐ Review & follow on: Spotify & Apple Podcasts
• 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @theCompendiumPodcast
• 🌐 Visit us at: TheCompendiumPodcast.com
• ❤️ Early access episodes: Patreon

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Chapters

• 0:00 Sneak Peak
• 0:55 Welcome to The Compendium
• 2:20 Topic of the week
• 1:06:33 Outro

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi: He also shows them his suicide note that he wrote. 

[00:00:04] Adam Cox: It feels like a kid showing off his toys. 

[00:00:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it does. The police take a look at the note and they read it. Bill realizes in this moment that he's messed up because in it he had written this is nothing to do with the Wells case.

[00:00:16] Adam Cox: That is weird, 

[00:00:17] Kyle Risi: And it was like someone blurted out, I didn't steal the cookies before anyone even noticed that the cookies were missing from the jar. 

[00:00:23] Adam Cox: Fine. And they're like, we weren't even thinking about that. We were just dealing with his body in a freezer. But now that you've said this, 

[00:00:28] Kyle Risi: yeah. What's going on here? Yeah. 

[00:00:57] Welcome to the Compendium, an Assembly of [00:01:00] fascinating things, a weekly variety podcasts that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. 

[00:01:06] Adam Cox: We explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden germs of history, and the jaw dropping deeds of extraordinary people.

[00:01:13] Kyle Risi: I'm Kyle Reese, your ring master for this episode. 

[00:01:16] Adam Cox: And I'm Adam Cox, the tent putter. Ruper for this week. ' cause no one ever thanks the guy that puts up the tent because you just put it up once and then you f*/*/k off. 

[00:01:26] Kyle Risi: Unless you're a traveling circus. What are we not a traveling circus? No. Oh, okay. We are stationed in the car park at the Hippodrome in Great Yarmouth 

[00:01:34] Adam Cox: and have been for the last 30 years.

[00:01:36] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, you are redundant. Before we dive in, a quick heads up to all your lovely freaks out there. Remember that signing up to our Patreon will give you early access to next week's episode and entire seven days before anyone else, and it's completely free of charge.

[00:01:51] and If you want even more, you can become a certified freak for a small monthly subscription that will unlock all of our unreleased episodes up to six weeks earlier. It is [00:02:00] literally the best way to support the compendium and we are so grateful if you do.

[00:02:04] Adam Cox: And of course, whilst you are at it, don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app and leave us a review. Your support really does help us reach more people who like you. Love a good tale of the unexpected. 

[00:02:15] Kyle Risi: All right, then freaks as we always say it this time in the show. That is enough of the housekeeping because Adam, today we are diving into an assembly of dangerous minds, ticking bombs, and an unsolved puzzle. 

[00:02:30] Adam Cox: Ticking bombs. What feels like there's gonna be a countdown to some kind of bomb exploding? I'm just guessing. 

[00:02:38] Kyle Risi: Well, you'll be right. Because Adam, today I wanna tell you about a fricking horrifying story that feels like it is ripped straight out of a Saw movie. Oh, I hate the soul movies. I know.

[00:02:48] They are horrible. Do you know what the other one is? That's really awful as well. Mm-hmm. Is the, the hostile movies? 

[00:02:53] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's just that kind of gruesome, like you watch, but you don't want to 

[00:02:57] Kyle Risi: No, I think from the hostel movie, the scene that [00:03:00] always sticks in my mind is when someone gouges out that poor Chinese lady's eye and it's dangling down her face and he grabs a blow torch like that you would make the creme brulee kind of cap on the top, and he starts to just blow at it with this torch, and then it starts to like bubble up like a fucking marshmallow.

[00:03:17] Wow. It was g one of the, and the soul movies are just the same as, well.

[00:03:22] it's too much, too much for me. 

[00:03:23] Adam Cox: Anyone that has to also de amputate themselves. De amputate, is that a word? No, that's the opposite of amputate. Oh, okay. So put your leg back on. But yeah, anyone that has to do that, that's wow.

[00:03:33] Kyle Risi: Fuck those people who put their legs back on after they were chopped off. 

[00:03:37] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's, it's awful to wash. 

[00:03:39] Kyle Risi: So you mean amputation? 

[00:03:41] Adam Cox: Yes. Anyone that has to amputate themselves to get out of a, slippery bind or whatever. That's, And they still end up dying. 

[00:03:47] Kyle Risi: Yeah. That's the thing, right? You do everything that you need to do to try and survive and then bam, like, fuck you. Right? Mm-hmm. Still die. 

[00:03:53] Adam Cox: Well, hopefully your story is a little more cheery than that, 

[00:03:57] Kyle Risi: Adam. Great. Imagine for a second that [00:04:00] you go to work one morning only to be ambushed by a gang of people who fasten a live bomb around your neck.

[00:04:05] Do not try to tam with it, and do not even bother trying to call the bomb squad because you only have one hour before it detonates. Your only hope of freeing yourself is to follow a series of cryptic clues to the letter, which sends you on a bizarre and desperate scavenger hunt that involves first robbing a bank, then scurrying across the city to find a series of clues that will help you disarm the bomb. It is literally life or death. 

[00:04:31] Only. Adam, this isn't a scene from a horror movie. This is actually the lived reality of a man named Brian Wells, a humble pizza delivery guy back in 2003 in Erie, Pennsylvania. What is wild about this story is that Brian does exactly what the note demands.

[00:04:48] He fucking robs the bank. Of course, as a result, the bank called the police who quickly find Brian. They apprehend him and stand behind their cars with all their guns pointed at him. And amid all this commotion, the [00:05:00] media just descend on the scene and millions and millions of people at home tuning to watch a literal real life saw movie unfold before their very eyes.

[00:05:10] How have I not heard about this, I know. Where have you been living? 

[00:05:14] Adam Cox: I mean, I dunno, most of the stuff that we cover, but Wow. This reminds me almost like a a, an escape room, but obviously to the extreme level. And I've never escaped an escape room. So you'd be dead. I think I'd be dead. 

[00:05:25] Kyle Risi: You'd be gone.

[00:05:25] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:05:26] Kyle Risi: What is even crazy is that four months afterwards, the police were driven into a frenzy as they try to work out who the mastermind behind all of this was. And each time they pursued a lead, they just ended up hitting a dead end, especially when people they were interested in talking to just began dying around them.

[00:05:41] Eventually all the police had to go on was what Brian had told them that a group of black men had jumped him, handcuffed a bomb around his neck, and handed him a 10 page letter containing their demands and the clues to disarming the fucking bomb.

[00:05:52] But to the police, none of this made any sense. Why would a bank robber take an unwilling hostage, risking [00:06:00] non-compliance, or worse that money ending up exploding? Interesting. So with all these unanswered questions, the case goes cold with the fear that they would never crack this case.

[00:06:11] That was until one day out of the blue, the police receive a phone call from a suicidal man reporting something gruesome in his garage that ends up leading the FBI to the Masterminds behind this bizarre real life saw movie.

[00:06:27] So Adam, today I'm gonna be telling you about the absolutely horrifying case and the bizarre web of people at the heart of the story. This is a story of Brian Wells and the Pizza Bummer heist. 

[00:06:40] This almost doesn't sound real. 

[00:06:44] I knew you would love this. It, yeah. This was really difficult to research because it was only in 2003 that this all took place, but. Depending on the sources that you read, there are so many bits of different conflicting information that it makes it really hard to really understand what [00:07:00] was the actual truth based on the different kind of sources that we read. 

[00:07:03] Adam Cox: Is this your disclaimer to go, if we got something wrong, don't blame us. Blame our sources. 

[00:07:09] Kyle Risi: But the point is this story is 100% true. It's just the minor details in there that sometimes made it a little bit difficult. So every time we get to a bit whereby there's conflicting bits of information, I'm gonna tell you both sides. Okay, fine. And we can kind of decide for ourselves what the truth is. Sure. 

[00:07:25] Adam Cox: I mean, I like to think our podcast is a bit like Wikipedia back in like the early two thousands. Like we weren't allowed to use it as like a, a reliable source in our dissertation Uhhuh, but it was about 90%. Correct. It's just about right. But just, yeah, don't use it in a, in an essay. 

[00:07:38] Kyle Risi: But the intent is there. Right. The intent is to give you something that's factual, that's accurate as best we can. But the problem with this story is it was really difficult. Took me all week to write this fucking thing. And that is because there is just minor details that differentiate between the different sources that I was reading. Okay. And that just made it quite frustrating. But largely the gist is 100% accurate.[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] That's a bomb. There is a bot.

[00:08:02] Adam. Brian Wells is the man at the center of today's story. He was a 46-year-old bachelor. He is starting to go gray. He wears his glasses that are reminiscent of Jeffrey Dharma, like with the look that was far too soon to be considered cool at the time, so if you were wearing Jeffrey Dharma glasses, that wasn't cool.

[00:08:20] You wearing 'em today? Cool. Do you know what I mean? That kind of vibe we have. Yeah. It's weird how those things come back around. It is so bizarre.

[00:08:27] And growing up, he's super smart. He's a straight A student. He's gone IQ around 120, but he just isn't a self-starter. On top of that, he's incredibly shy. At 16, he drops outta school. He works as a mechanic for a while, but eventually he settles into a job as a pizza delivery guy for a local pizza shop called Mama Me's. That's where he's been working for the last 10 years. 

[00:08:46] By all accounts, Brian was, content life could have been better, but he wasn't really that materialistic type. Neighbors would describe him as nice, perhaps a common way to describe someone that was maybe like fairly unremarkable. I guess 

[00:08:59] Adam Cox: I, [00:09:00] yes. It doesn't sound like he leaves a lasting impression, but just a average guy. No. 

[00:09:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah, he's just an average guy and he is likable, but he's just not special. Poor guy. I know. Where are you getting out with this? I'm not gonna get, I'm just saying what I've read in the sources. 

[00:09:13] Adam Cox: Okay, fine. 

[00:09:14] Kyle Risi: So on Thursday the 28th of August, 2003. Just another day, Brian was on shift at Mama Mia's Pizza in Erie, Pennsylvania, when just after 1:30 PM an order came in from a payphone at a nearby petrol station.

[00:09:28] The caller's voice was really muffled and really hard to understand. So the owner, Tony Dominio, handed the phone over to Brian. They requested two small pizzas to be delivered to 8 6 3 1 Peach Street just a few miles away. Brian knew the area well.

[00:09:43] Almost all of his deliveries were to residential houses or local businesses. But this location was unusual. For one, it was at the end of a really long dirt road. And secondly, all that stood there at the end of that road was an old TV transmission tower. 

[00:09:58] Brian didn't give it [00:10:00] too much thought though. So he places the order and when it was ready, he headed out to make the delivery telling Tony that he would be clocking off after he had made the delivery. 

[00:10:09] So it's quite early in the day to be clocking off. Right. maybe he's done a night shift. Yeah. But this is now two 30 in the afternoon. Right. So he probably wasn't working the night shift, otherwise he would've been working a long time. 

[00:10:19] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's true. And yeah. Breakfast, pizza, or maybe it's like getting the, it, it prepped ready for later that day.

[00:10:24] Kyle Risi: Possibly. Possibly. I just think it was unusual that he was clocking off at one 30, basically. Okay.

[00:10:30] We don't really know what happens next. We can only imagine that Brian steps out of the car with the pizzas looking around in the middle of nowhere. Perhaps he calls out to the customer, or maybe he kind of like starts walking towards the kind of TV service road we just don't know. 

[00:10:43] But according to what investigators were able to piece together later when Brian arrived at the tower, he was confronted by a group of people who ambush him and forcibly lock a metal collar around his neck.

[00:10:54] Attached to the collar was a literal ticking time bomb. Evidence at the scene [00:11:00] suggests that Brian struggled, obviously out of fear and panic, but in the end, he's overpowered with the device now latched around his neck like a fucking shackle. The group forced an oversized white T-shirt over his head with the word guess written across it.

[00:11:15] Obviously that's gonna be used to just try and disguise a bomb. But I have to say, nothing draws attention to a massive bulge under your shirt, like the word guess. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:11:25] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:11:25] Kyle Risi: And the thing is though, this is a good example of, wow, some of the sources get some the minded details wrong because it wasn't very clear whether or not this was a guest branded t-shirt, like guest jeans.

[00:11:36] Adam Cox: That's what I thought. They did that and I thought, that's handy. We can use that brand to put over his head or over his chest. 

[00:11:41] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So for the entire week after I'd written this, that was how I interpreted it, right? Yeah. And then I started looking at photographs of Brian and I'm like, that's written on, someone has written that on his shirt. And I guess that brings new meaning to what's happening here. Like it's kind of like a cruel prank. I don't know. It's just [00:12:00] weird like, hey, guess what's under my shirt? 

[00:12:02] Adam Cox: Or is it just knockoff designer wear? 

[00:12:04] Kyle Risi: It. Adam has written all the fucking Sharpie, like a Trump sharpie.

[00:12:07] Adam Cox: Like it, it's real bad knockoff. It's like kindergarten. Oh 

[00:12:12] Kyle Risi: my God. I swear it's real.

[00:12:14] They then thrust a handwritten note with detailed instructions for a literal scavenger hunt that he had to successfully complete if he wanted to stay alive. 

[00:12:22] They also hand him what looks like a walking cane, which was actually a very cleverly handcrafted shotgun, and to drive the point home that they meant business, they fired a warning shot from a pistol into the air.

[00:12:35] They then gave him strict instructions to follow the note. Literally to the letter, it instructed him to walk into the local PNC bank on Peach Street and demand $250,000 in cash from their vaults. Once he had the money, the first part of his task would be complete.

[00:12:49] And then he was required to complete a series of tasks that would lead him to find a series of codes and keys to unlock and disarm the bomb around his neck. 

[00:12:57] They warned him not to run or to seek [00:13:00] any kind of help saying that they'll be watching his every move and if they detected anything was amiss, they would detonate the bomb remotely.

[00:13:07] They told him that if he was stopped by the police, he should deliberately mislead them and claim that a group of black men had attacked him, forced the collar around his neck and demanded that he followed their instructions. 

[00:13:20] Okay. 

[00:13:21] Once Brian confirmed that he understood what he needed to do and what was at stake, they sent him on his way, and so with a literal ticking time bomb around his neck, this weird fucking shotgun cane in his hand, he gets into his car and he drives off, 

[00:13:37] Adam Cox: says. This is weird. 

[00:13:39] Kyle Risi: Do you think it's farfetched? What are you thinking? 

[00:13:41] Adam Cox: Well, just because you said investigators tried to make out from what they could at the scene mm-hmm. I guess it feels like people are trying to recreate or really look into exactly what happened and maybe there are some doubts exactly what happened here. 

[00:13:54] Kyle Risi: Yes, 100%. 

[00:13:55] Adam Cox: That's what I'm trying to get, I guess. 

[00:13:57] Kyle Risi: Insightful input. Adam, thank you very much. Let's [00:14:00] continue. Alright, so a few minutes later at 2:30 PM Brian walks into the PNC Bank on Pete Street. CCTV footage captures him wearing blue jeans and that oversized white t-shirt with the infamous word guess written on it, not printed, written. That's the very important I had to make. Yeah. I made that edit like last minute and of course under it was the protruding bomb. It was roughly the size of maybe a couple of phone books kind of sort of bulging out from his chest under like his neck. Can people see the bomb? Yes. Like when you look at him at first glance, it looks like he's wearing an neck brace from a potential injury. Right. Which is just reinforced by the fact that he's carrying what appears to be that weird walking cane, which is actually a shotgun. 

[00:14:40] I mean, it's too short to be a walking cane, especially for Brian. He's quite tall, but he's got it in his hand and something is bulky around here. When you just look at him first glance, you just think, oh, he's hurt himself. It's a whiplash case and he is got concussion. 

[00:14:52] Adam Cox: And he is got a really short walking cane. 

[00:14:54] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's very strange. So he walks in, he tries to act as normal as possible. He quietly gets in line, [00:15:00] he grabs a purple lollipop from the counters, candy tray, and just pops in his mouth.

[00:15:04] Okay. That's a weird thing to do. Very weird thing. So very casual, right? 

[00:15:08] Adam Cox: Yeah. 'cause surely he's like really stressed out at this point. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna die, I need to do this thing in order to survive. Exactly. But he picks up a chub chop. 

[00:15:15] Kyle Risi: Essentially.

[00:15:16] Adam Cox: What flavor?

[00:15:17] Kyle Risi: It was purple. So it's obviously gonna be grape, right?

[00:15:19] So when it's his turn, he calmly slides a note across the counter. The teller thinks it's just another deposit slip. She picks it up. She reads the first line, which basically says the man in front of you is carrying a bomb locked around his neck and they want $250,000 in cash else the bomb will explode in 15 minutes. 

[00:15:36] So thinking this is some kind of joke, she looks up at Brian, he kind of smiles slightly. Then he lifts the front of his shirt to reveal the bomb and the strange kind of shotgun cane.

[00:15:44] So I think at that point she was like, okay. This is genuine. Yeah. She tells him that the bank vaults are preset, are open only at specific times during the day. And there was no way that a bank employee could access $250,000 in cash in such a short kind of period of time.

[00:15:58] In fact, they didn't [00:16:00] even have anywhere near that amount of money on the premises. So Brian tells her, just empty the cash tills with as much money as you possibly can and hand it over. 

[00:16:07] And that's exactly what she does. She gathers all the cash that she has beside the counter and hands it to him in a plastic bag. And inside that bag is $8,702. 

[00:16:17] Adam Cox: I was just about to say, it's only gonna be a few thousand dollars. Yeah. And this has a lot of work to go through with a bomb, like the. So convoluted. Exactly. And even just all this to get 250,000 doesn't seem like enough money. 

[00:16:31] Kyle Risi: Oh, I did the 250,000. 

[00:16:33] Adam Cox: Okay, fine. But I just think in the grand scheme of things, there's like even like creating a bomb, all this kind of process and planning that's gone into this.

[00:16:40] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Yeah. So this is a huge far cry from the quarter of a million dollars that he needed. But time was literally ticking and Brian just had to move, right? Mm-hmm. So Brian takes the bag of money and despite the life or death stakes, his behavior is strangely calm. Like he turns to exit the bank with this nonchalant error about [00:17:00] him. He's still sucking on his lollipop. 

[00:17:01] And according to a witness, she says that he was swinging his cane in the moneybag in like this jaunty manner. She said it was like a Charlie Chaplin kind of skit. That's weird. It's a really strange behavior from someone with a literal ticking time bomb strapped around his neck, and strangely confident for someone who's just been instructed to get $250,000 from a bank only to be given $8,702.

[00:17:26] Like if this was me, I'd be thinking, shit, will my hostage takers detonate the bomb? If I come up short? Remember they can also see me. They're watching my every move. 

[00:17:34] Adam Cox: Yeah. And why is he perhaps not even trying to like secretly say, can you get help or anything like this? Because he'll be sweating. He's gonna be a nervous wreck. He'll be shouting all sorts. I just feel like, think that something's amiss, right? Has has he plotted this? 

[00:17:50] Kyle Risi: Let's continue. Okay.

[00:17:52] So Brian leaves the bank. The staff, of course, trigger the alarm, which is a surprise to the customers who don't even know that a robbery's even taken place. That's [00:18:00] how quick this was.

[00:18:01] At 2:38 PM someone on the street sees Brian walking out of the bank and they immediately call 9 1 1 saying that a man has just left the bank with a bomb or something wrapped around his neck, but it didn't matter, the police were already on their way.

[00:18:13] Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:14] Meanwhile, Brian hurries to his car to figure out what he needed to do next. In the notes he's instructed to proceed to a series of specific locations to collect a bunch of keys and combination codes, which would supposedly buy him a little more time before the bomb could be unlocked and disarmed.

[00:18:29] Adam Cox: And is he, is he supposed to disarm it himself or get help? 

[00:18:32] Kyle Risi: He's gonna be doing it himself. Right, the note said that the entire sequence was tightly timed and that he had to complete everything within 55 minutes if he wanted to survive.

[00:18:40] At the bottom of the instructions in all caps, it read, act now, think later, or you will die. There is no room for hesitation, 

[00:18:49] right? 

[00:18:49] So according to the note, Brian immediately drives to the first location. It's a McDonald's parking lot, a short distance away. There he's to get out of the car, head to a small sign reading, drive through [00:19:00] open 24 hours. 

[00:19:01] There in the flower bed, he will find a rock. With a next note clue taped to it. According to the note, it emphasized the no money, no keys rule, suggesting that having the cash was crucial to proceed. 

[00:19:12] Remember, he only had $8,702, not the $250,000 that he was instructed to get from the bank, right? the note directs him to drop the cache there, and then drive up Peach Street to a small wooded area where he's supposed to locate an orange taped container.

[00:19:29] That is where he'll find the next set of instructions or keys that he needs to diffuse the bomb. So it sounds like there's gonna be different locations and in each location there might be a key or might be another instruction to go to another area where he'll then find a key. So we don't know how many locations there are at this point, and he is gotta do this all in 55 minutes, all in 55 minutes, 

[00:19:48] Adam Cox: kind of feel that's impossible because he's gotta a rob a bank. Mm-hmm. That's gotta, I don't know what, take 15, 20 minutes. Yep. He's only gotta drive somewhere, find a rock in McDonald's.

[00:19:57] Mm-hmm. That's gonna take another five, 10, [00:20:00] maybe 15 minutes. And then he is got then drive to some other place and then maybe somewhere else. 

[00:20:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah. One of the locations he has to drive is seven miles away. 

[00:20:06] Adam Cox: Yeah. This does not sound right.

[00:20:08] Kyle Risi: It doesn't, does it? So Brian just drops the cash, he runs back to his car and speeds off. By this point, it has been about 15 minutes since he left the bank told you, as Brian drives out of the car park and heads up Peach Street, a dozen or so, officers suddenly converge on him. They spring out their cruises, their guns are drawn. It's clear that they are unsure how to handle the situation or even what they're dealing with.

[00:20:29] Brian is ordered out of his car, he steps out with his hands raised. That's when the officers see the bombs drop around his neck and immediately someone handcuffs him, forces him to the ground, their guns stay trained on him as they slowly back away, like keeping their distance. And by this point he's just completely surrounded with officers just crouched behind their cruises, just watching his every move.

[00:20:51] Adam Cox: And I guess at this point he must be panicking 'cause he's like, I've gotta get this bomb off Me guys help, help. 

[00:20:57] Kyle Risi: Let's see. 

[00:20:58] Adam Cox: Yeah, what's he saying? 

[00:20:59] Kyle Risi: So [00:21:00] Brian is obviously frantically trying to explain that he's the victim. He says that he's been forced into this. He tells them that three black men attacked him. They locked the bomb around his neck and they made him rob the bank and he pleads with them. He's begging them to at least take the handcuffs off so that he can prop the bomb up because it's straining his neck. 

[00:21:15] Adam Cox: Okay. 

[00:21:16] Kyle Risi: So amid all the chaos, of course, the local TV news cameras, they all arrive, they start broadcasting live. so millions of people start tuning in, watching this entire thing unfold in real time. The police, of course, they call the bomb squad. While they wait, they clear all the bystanders and they set up a perimeter and they just keep Brian at gunpoint, mainly to ensure that he won't run off or detonate the bomb himself, right?

[00:21:38] But meanwhile, Brian is just sitting on the pavement, sort of propped up against the front of a car, like he starts calling out for like a cigarette. And the police, of course, they just ignore him. At this moment, he doesn't really seem that terrified. If anything, he looks irritated. Later his behavior is what makes people think that actually Brian might be involved in this. 

[00:21:59] Adam Cox: [00:22:00] Oh, really? That's what the clue was. But the sort of relaxed demeanor changes. In an instance when to Brian's shock and horror, the bomb starts beeping. Oh. 

[00:22:12] This is the first time that Brian really, truly seems to be panicking. And again, police will later think that if Brian was involved, there's a good chance that up until this point he believed the bomb was fake. 

[00:22:23] Yeah. Weird. Right. Has he been sold? A dodgy, but real bomb? 

[00:22:29] Kyle Risi: Has he been sold? Where's he gonna get a bomb from? 

[00:22:31] Adam Cox: I, I guys, I need a bomb. A fake bomb. But it needs to like sound and look real. 

[00:22:36] Kyle Risi: It's like, Jim, I've just been doing the I imagery. Wouldn't missing a bomb. Oh no. I sold the wrong thing. 

[00:22:44] Adam Cox: These things happen. Do.

[00:22:47] Kyle Risi: But now with the bomb beeping and seeing Brian panicking, like really panicking, not just like panic from being surrounded by police with their guns drawn. This is different. This is panic as he realizes that perhaps the bomb is real [00:23:00] and now it's actively counting down.

[00:23:02] So Brian cries out, he's like, why isn't anyone helping to get this thing off of me? Like I do not have a lot of time, please. And brian just starts pleading for a priest to come and give him his last rights. He's saying I'm not lying. This is gonna go off. 

[00:23:14] And by this point, it's been 40 minutes since he left the bank. And then. Exactly. At 3:18 PM the beeping speeds up faster and faster. Brian screams in panic. He sort of shuffles backwards to kind of instinctively distance himself from the bomb. 

[00:23:31] And then 

[00:23:32] boom, an explosion rips through the parking lot. A bright flash of fire emerges from Brian's chest along with a burst of smoke, and he's killed instantly as smoke and shrapnel just rain down around him. 

[00:23:45] Shit.

[00:23:46] Then Adam is just silence. 

[00:23:48] And when I first watched this, I was just in complete disbelief because I just didn't think for a second that they would actually physically a, if captured it on film, all that it would be available online to [00:24:00] see. Like I just couldn't believe that this was being broadcast live. Even worse? Was that the Blast Tears a fist size hole straight through his chest? 

[00:24:08] Adam Cox: Geez. I generally didn't think it was gonna go off. 

[00:24:10] Kyle Risi: No. Adam, Brian's dead. 

[00:24:13] Adam Cox: Oh, well now I feel bad. 

[00:24:14] Kyle Risi: So Adam, what are you thinking? Do you think that Brian was involved in this maybe fully or in part, based on Brian's behavior, like his calmness in the bank and that kind of irritation that he shows before the bomb starts beeping? Does that make you question that maybe he was involved in some way? 

[00:24:30] Adam Cox: Well, it feels like anyone that has a bomb around them would be panicking the entire time. So for him to just shift his behavior towards the end mm-hmm. Feels like that's when the panic set in. So something doesn't sit right. I feel like he's perhaps in on a wider thing that's where I'm at right now. 

[00:24:48] Kyle Risi: And I think like the police feel the same way. right. Based on the. Behavior that he exhibits they just can't help but feel that he must be involved in some way, but also there's also evidence to suggest that he just isn't [00:25:00] involved.

[00:25:00] Right? Yeah. But we'll get onto the investigation in a minute and you'll see how bizarre this starts to get.

[00:25:06] So officers, they naturally, they approach Brian's body still bracing for the possibility of another explosion. It's around this time that the bomb squad finally arrive. It's 3:21 PM so about three minutes too late. Eventually they give the paramedics the all clear, who then confirm that Brian was in fact dead. 

[00:25:22] It becomes one of the biggest news stories in the USA, the headlines are pretty much pizza delivery, man with bomb collar. It's on all the front pages, they run with the stories for hours and hours and days. The USA and of course the people of Erie are just in complete disbelief. 

[00:25:36] The police then begin searching Brian's car they find the shotgun cane along with a note, including the instructions about robbing the bank and of course the scavenger hunt.

[00:25:45] Then when the bomb squad gives the all clear, Brian's body is taken to the coroner's office so they can start inspecting the bomb, which at this point is still clamped around his neck. On one side of it there are clear instructions for the police to not tample with it [00:26:00] or else it would potentially trigger another explosion.

[00:26:02] The collar has kind of like this hinge mechanism, sort of like a giant handcuff, and it's got like four keyholes positioned just under the chin area. And the cholera itself is connected to kind of like a rectangular box just containing two pipe bombs with two kitchen timers, and also a third electronic timer that just hangs down below his chest.

[00:26:20] It is just completely covered with labels and arrows, all pointing to various parts, including decoys. Like there are a bunch of unconnected wires deliberately designed to mislead, and they even managed to pack like a toy cell phone inside of it to act as like a bit of a decoy. 

[00:26:37] Because the collar works a bit like a handcuff, it means that without the keys, it can only tighten around the neck in one direction.

[00:26:46] And they, of course, don't want to chance a second explosion by angle, grinding the bomb off of his neck. So the only option I. It's for them to remove Brian's head, there's literally nothing else they can do.

[00:26:57] Adam Cox: Wow. I wasn't quite sure if the bomb was a [00:27:00] bit like a makeshift bomb. Of course they're all made, but it, I dunno, I feel like it's like a done in a, a shed kind of thing. But this feels quite sophisticated. 

[00:27:08] Kyle Risi: What they learned is that whoever made this bomb was someone very meticulous. Like given the effort they took to build in those decoy features and add in all the warning stickers and put in all the weird wires, they clearly knew what they were doing.

[00:27:20] Adam Cox: I wonder if it was a, like a professional bomb maker that's done this, is it is not someone that's just gone on a YouTube channel or read a book and gone, right, I'm gonna make my first bomb. 

[00:27:28] Kyle Risi: Hey, I've created some pretty cool things by going to YouTube. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not denying that I tiled our bathroom by going onto YouTube. 

[00:27:35] Adam Cox: Yeah. I was there as well. But yeah, it's, it's clearly someone who knows exactly what they're doing. Uhhuh.

[00:27:40] So while the forensics examined Brian's body, the police decide to follow the scavenger hunt to see if it led to any clues or who else is behind all of this.

[00:27:49] The officers, continue to where Brian was headed next, which leads them to a small wooded area up Peach Street where they find the orange container with a note telling them to head two miles south to a small road sign where [00:28:00] the next clue would be waiting in a jar. 

[00:28:02] As they're checking the area for any other clues, they suddenly see a blue metallic van speeding towards and far in the distance. 

[00:28:09] the van sees them, it kind of screeches to a halt for a second before then speeding away, and at that moment, the police don't really have a chance to pursue it. So they just end up calling it in instead. 

[00:28:18] Eventually, the police make their way to the next location where they find the jar, but there's nothing inside it. It's completely empty. 

[00:28:25] So either this was the Masterminds plan all along and a final insult to Brian since remember, he would be able to identify them if he was caught, or maybe after seeing Brian being apprehended, the blue metallic van was hurrying to clear away all the remaining clues before the police could find them.

[00:28:43] Okay. I'm just even more confused now. Why would you be confused? Just mean, why would I be confused? I don't know what's going on here. You haven't been that clear. 

[00:28:53] I am sorry. the thing is though, like the presence of this blue van is really mysterious and the fact that the [00:29:00] clue in the jar is missing is strange. 

[00:29:02] I think, however, that the truth is likely somewhere in the middle because when the FBI analyzed the clues later on, they work out that even with extra time, it would've been completely impossible for Brian to finish this scavenger hunt.

[00:29:14] The instructions ensured that there was plenty of time to, of course, rob the bank and then drop the cash at the McDonald's. But from there, the scavenger hunt was pretty much designed to get Brian far away where the bomb could eliminate him as a witness and a liability.

[00:29:28] So when that van came speeding along the road, were they looking for Brian's body as well as clearing up the clues? 

[00:29:34] Interesting. I still wonder if the glass jar was like the final clue. Or whether there was more after that. I guess we won't know that.

[00:29:41] Kyle Risi: Well, this is where it was really difficult when it came to the details of this. There were different conflicting bits of information, but it's definitely implied that there were other locations. It's just that they'd reached a dead end because whoever came over that hill had cleared up those. Clues. 

[00:29:54] Adam Cox: But that's what makes me think it was impossible for him to have ever escaped. Mm-hmm. Like that. Like there's no way he could do it in an [00:30:00] hour. So it was inevitable he was gonna die once he dropped off the money. 

[00:30:04] Kyle Risi: Sure. That's it. Did Brian do this himself? Or was he actually apprehended and forced into doing this? 

[00:30:10] Adam Cox: Mm. That I still don't know if he's part of a wider gang. And he was, I don't know, drew the short straw.

[00:30:15] Kyle Risi: So either way, it's at this point that the police are just lost, right? The clues to the other three potential locations have been cleared or maybe even never existed in the first place, and so, realizing that this case is far bigger than the Erie Police, this is when the FBI is brought in to help investigate the police hand over all the evidence they have so far.

[00:30:33] The first thing they want to do is take a look at the note, Their first idea is to get a handwriting sample from it, but whoever wrote it had typed the original on a typewriter, then traced over it in pen to disguise their handwriting. So whoever did this was clearly thinking two steps ahead.

[00:30:50] Adam Cox: Interesting. 

[00:30:51] Kyle Risi: Next, they send a team to the location where Brian delivered the pizzas. They find a couple of footprints that matched the sneakers that he was wearing. They also [00:31:00] find tire marks that match the tread of his nineties geo metro, so they know that he was definitely there for sure. 

[00:31:05] They even find evidence of a scuffle, which suggests Brian was telling the truth about obviously being attacked.

[00:31:12] Of course, we know that they weren't these black guys because the real perpetrators told Brian to deliberately lie to the police.

[00:31:19] When the FBI speak to some of the neighbors nearby, a few of them report hearing a gunshot earlier that day, which may have been the gunshot used to intimidate Brian into complying. 

[00:31:29] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:29] Kyle Risi: Next, the FBI searched Brian's house. They don't find anything to suggest that he was involved in making the bomb, but because of Brian's super relaxed demeanor in the bank, casually like swinging around his cane and sucking on his lollipop, and this apparent calmness before the bomb starts ticking, they keep an open mind about his involvement. Because that's, that's the biggest red flag there. 

[00:31:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. Unless, and I feel like this is a stretch, unless the people that did attack him said, it's not a real bomb. Don't worry. We just need you to rob the bank. Even still, you're gonna be like, I've just been threatened my life. Mm-hmm. [00:32:00] I'm still gonna panic. 

[00:32:01] Kyle Risi: I mean, that's possible. They do. However, Amy's house. Find an address book filled with names and numbers of local sex workers. One of them is a woman called Jessica Hoops sick. 

[00:32:10] Adam Cox: Are you saying it's her? She did this?

[00:32:12] Kyle Risi: Let's find out. There's a lot of characters in this. And I'm going to always be reminding you of who the different people are that we talk about. But I've had to eliminate a lot of people in this episode because there's just too much. I can't handle too many names. 

[00:32:24] But Jessica Hoops, basically, she outright refuses to speak to the police at first. This isn't that suspicious, considering obviously she's a sex worker and she's an addict and probably cautious about talking to police. But when they talked to more people, they discovered that Brian wasn't just paying for sex, he was also buying her groceries and buying her crack and then giving it to her. 

[00:32:42] Adam Cox: Right? It's a bit of a weird like romantic relationship. 

[00:32:45] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It becomes clear that they were closer than just business associates. 

[00:32:49] Adam Cox: Business associates. 

[00:32:51] Kyle Risi: Well, I dunno. You have to treat. Sex workers with respect nowadays, you can't call them prostitutes anymore, yeah. I'm not, I'm not denying that. Oh, okay. Good. I'm just trying to, I just thought this was a, a moment that I could [00:33:00] educate you on not being a bigot. That's, wow. 

[00:33:04] the FBI visit Mama me is Pizzeria. Tony the owner isn't really much help. He's just as confused as everyone else. 

[00:33:11] They managed to trace the original pizza order to an Exxon garage just around the corner. Some sources say it's a Shell garage. Another example of like how some of the details can be a bit skewed. 

[00:33:20] The point is that Shell garage is just around the corner, so it's nowhere near where the TV transmission tower was. So it's likely that Brian didn't go to them. Instead, they must have followed Brian to the TV tower. 

[00:33:34] Adam Cox: Right. Okay. Makes sense. 

[00:33:35] Kyle Risi: So while the FBI oriented Pizza Shop, their attention turns to one of Brian's colleagues. He is a delivery driver named Robert Peretti.

[00:33:42] Now, Robert was working on the day that Brian was killed, and the FBI takes an interest in him because he seems agitated and at some point during their conversation, Robert starts putting the feelers out to the police for some sort of protection. But he quickly changes the subject, [00:34:00] maybe realizing that bringing it up could maybe implicate him in Brian's death.

[00:34:05] Adam Cox: Okay. 

[00:34:06] Kyle Risi: So the FB, they leave the pizza shop thinking that Brian Peretti might know something more than he's actually letting on. They invite him in for an interview the next day, but he never shows up because the night before Robert is found dead from a suspected overdose. So did Robert know something? And if so, did someone kill him? 

[00:34:25] Adam Cox: This is getting weird and more cryptic, isn't it? 

[00:34:27] Kyle Risi: It is. It's gonna come together all in a bit. I'm just laying down the groundwork. But it's such a bizarre case. And this will give you a sense of how the police are feeling. I did read this really fascinating paper about, cognitive bias and things like that. And for the longest time the police would like pick up on certain clues that were just completely irrelevant and they would hang onto it, which prohibited them from exploring other avenues. 

[00:34:49] Like this idea that Brian was involved. They became so fixated with it that they didn't look at other evidence seriously because they were just so certain that he was [00:35:00] involved.

[00:35:00] Now, I'm not saying that he wasn't involved, but 

[00:35:03] Adam Cox: that's just one avenue. 

[00:35:04] Kyle Risi: They weren't open-minded enough mm-hmm. To the possibility that there could be another explanation for this. So they're really fascinating. In fact, I will link to that in the show notes. If you're interested in reading, how they miss certain clues.

[00:35:17] By this point in the investigation, it's been a couple of weeks since Brian was killed and no real progress would be made. They don't have any suspects. Robert Pine Netti is dead, but they don't know if he knew anything.

[00:35:26] Nothing seems to make sense and even stranger is that they don't really know what the motive for this case was at all. 

[00:35:32] So the FBI, they decide to use what they know and they put together a profile. They hold a press conference where they release images of the bomb, the cane, the note, and they tell the press that based on the language in the note and the level of sophistication, they are likely looking for someone who is highly intelligent.

[00:35:48] Based on the bomb, they're likely looking for someone who is very skilled in metal work and woodworking, possibly military or someone with a scientific background. And of course, based on the weird shotgun [00:36:00] cane, it might be someone who collected weapons or possibly even made weapons as a hobby. 

[00:36:05] Adam Cox: And it was a working shotgun. It wasn't just like a, it was made to look like a cane or something. 

[00:36:09] Kyle Risi: The up close pictures look very much like a real shotgun. Mm-hmm. But given the complexity of the entire operation, whoever it was, was extremely patient and meticulous. Even if the scavenger hunt was impossible to finish, they spent the time to make sure that it looked like it could be at first sight. Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:28] But of course when the press asked the FBI like what they think the motive is, the simple answer was like, we don't know. It looks like a robbery, but the use of a bomb and a hostage makes the chances of success in these situations extremely low. 

[00:36:40] Like this is also why the FBI keep an open mind about Brian's involvement because whoever did this needed to guarantee that the hostage would comply.

[00:36:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. And that's why I don't feel like it's just about money. 'cause it feels like this, it's really extreme just for $250,000. I don't think that's enough to go through all of this, this plotting [00:37:00] personally.

[00:37:00] Kyle Risi: Do you get a sense that maybe the motive might be notoriety? 

[00:37:04] Adam Cox: Yeah, I don't think it's about money. They didn't want the money. 'cause almost like they didn't, you didn't stand a chance in succeeding in the first place. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what's, what's the mo? 

[00:37:13] Kyle Risi: Basically the police are saying that without compliance, there's of course a high risk that either the hostage would blow themselves up before you got the money, or even worse for the Masterminds, the money would be completely destroyed itself, right?

[00:37:26] So the FBI had no idea what the motive was. It was possible that it was just a highly intelligent madman. 

[00:37:33] So following the press release, nothing turns up, nobody comes forward. There's no new suspects that emerge, and the case is just looking like it's going to remain unsolved.

[00:37:41] For now,

[00:37:42] That was until out of nowhere. On the 20th of September, the police receive a phone call from a 59-year-old man named Brian Rothstein in the 9 1 1 call. He says, at 8 6 4 5 Peach Street in the freezer, in the garage, there was a frozen [00:38:00] body and that there was a woman who they might want to pick up for questioning.

[00:38:04] They ask, how do you know this? And he says, trust me, I know. They ask him who he is. He says, I'm the guy who lives there. My name is Bill Rothstein. They then ask what the woman's name was. He says, Marjorie dial, Armstrong adding, I'll give you guys a story, but you have to first promise to arrest the woman in the house first.

[00:38:26] Adam Cox: So he's admitting then to the police that there's a body in the freezer of his house. But he wants them to arrest this woman first, who's also in his house right now. Mm-hmm. Okay. This is very weird. 

[00:38:37] Kyle Risi: So, Adam, the question is, who is Marjorie Dial Armstrong? Who is Bill Rothstein? And who the fuck is in that freezer? And how does this all link back to Brian Wells? We'll have to find out after the break.

[00:38:50] Bloody hell.

[00:38:54] So Adam, we're back. What's on your mind right now? What are you thinking? 

[00:38:58] Adam Cox: I wanna know why there is a [00:39:00] body in this guy's freezer and he wants to stitch up this woman. 

[00:39:03] Kyle Risi: That's what I said before the break. Yeah, that's what I said. Those are the questions. Well, you asked what actually laid the questions out. 

[00:39:08] Adam Cox: And you asked what's on my mind, the questions that you just asked me. Ah, simple mind. 

[00:39:13] Kyle Risi: So yeah, the police received this very mysterious call from a man named Bill Rothstein. He tells them that in his garage there's a frozen corpse. Inside the house is a woman named Marjorie Armstrong, who he thinks that they might be very interested in talking to. Even more curious is that he insists that he will speak to the police, but only if they arrest her first. 

[00:39:31] Adam Cox: And I guess at this point he's not saying it's anything to do with the pizza bomber. No, he's just saying, he's just called them up and go Look, can you deal with this problem and I'll, I'll let you in on some information.

[00:39:40] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Yeah. So the police, they head to 8 6 4 5 Peach Street. Coincidentally not too far from the TV tower where Brian had delivered the Peters. They find Marjorie laying on a bed upstairs. They immediately handcuff her and take her away.

[00:39:53] When the coast is clear, bill emerges out of the bushes. I assume he leads the police to the freezer [00:40:00] in the garage. And sure enough, there is the frozen corpse of 45-year-old James Rodin, the boyfriend of Marjorie Armstrong. So who is Marjorie? 

[00:40:10] Adam Cox: That's what I asked you. Who is Marjorie? You're the one doing the story. 

[00:40:13] Kyle Risi: So I'll tell you first off, she's a colorful character locally. She's known as crazy Marge. Because of her extreme hoarding tendencies, her house is like pretty much uninhabitable. Like it's literally packed floor to ceiling with junk, including vast quantities of food. Most of it's just rotting. 

[00:40:29] I'm talking 37 dozen eggs, cans of tuna, hundreds and hundreds of cans of vegetables and meat just rotting it's rank. 

[00:40:37] Adam Cox: Do you know what image I got of Marjorie? What? 

[00:40:39] Do you remember our friend Miguel? Yeah. And his neighbor, I can't remember her name. Crazy, crazy. They just called her crazy. Um, 'cause she used to sometimes lay out in like the open garden area in a robe with a, with a tit. Hanging out. With a tit. I was walking to Miguel's house one day and I came down the alleyway and there she was sitting on someone's step and I was with Sarah. And as we're walking [00:41:00] down, I just halt her. Went stop. 

[00:41:02] And Sarah was like, what's wrong? What's wrong? And I said, look. And there she was sitting on the step, just pissing. And it was coming out like a horse. Oh God no. I does tell you from Little Britain where she was just. In the supermarket and just piss was coming out and she's just ignoring everyone else. That was what was happening. It was strange. It was really , I've never seen one person's breasts so much in my entire life. 

[00:41:21] Yeah. And it's usually not, you know, it's offered up to you whether you want it or not.

[00:41:25] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Nip slip. 

[00:41:27] But here's the thing about Marge, right? She is super intelligent. Like she was her high school valedictorian. She's got two master's degrees in sociology and education but at the same time, she's also severely bipolar. Like she suffers from several other mental illnesses and because of this, she's known as a loose cannon, hence the nickname that she owns around town Crazy March.

[00:41:47] But what's really relevant to the story is that at least three of her previous partners have died under mysterious circumstances. 

[00:41:53] Her first husband dies after falling and hitting his head on a coffee table. Initially he survives, but later he dies in hospital [00:42:00] where she successfully sues for negligence and walks away with $175,000 in compensation and in true crazy Marge fashion, she requests the hospital, give her a piece of his leg bone so that she might clone him in the future.

[00:42:14] Adam Cox: And they agree to that? 

[00:42:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah, they just, I mean, I guess so. He's Nexa kid, so she got it. 

[00:42:19] Adam Cox: It's like, okay, you, you run along, you go do some cloning. 

[00:42:23] Kyle Risi: So the thing is though, she gets it and she just adds it to a vast collection of things that she deems, like top of the tier stuff that's just mounting up in her house.

[00:42:31] Then in 1984, she's charged with murder after shooting her boyfriend six times while he was asleep on the sofa. But she somehow convinces the jury that she killed him outta self-defense, and therefore is acquitted in 1988. 

[00:42:44] Adam Cox: Okay. So she sounds like a bit of a serial killer. 

[00:42:46] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. And now she's about to be implicated in yet another murder. This time another partner called James Rodin, whose body was found stuffed in a freezer in Bill Rossin's garage. 

[00:42:57] So now the big question left is who is Bill [00:43:00] Rothstein? How did James Rodin end up in that freezer and how is this all connected to Brian Wells? Is Bill going out with Marjorie? Ah, interesting. 

[00:43:09] So Bill Rothstein, he is a 6-year-old ex lover of longtime friend. Crazy. Marge Uhhuh. He's very bird. Remember a Big Bang Theory, the geologist guy.

[00:43:20] Adam Cox: Oh yeah, 

[00:43:21] Kyle Risi: Bert. Yeah. He looks just like Bert. 100%. 

[00:43:23] Adam Cox: I think he recently died. 

[00:43:24] Kyle Risi: No. 

[00:43:26] Adam Cox: Yeah, I'm sure I saw something recently. That's really sad. Oh, hang on. No, no, that's someone else. 

[00:43:31] Kyle Risi: Okay, moving on. So just like Marge, he also is a gross hoarder, but he's also super intelligent though. He's like more charismatic than Marge, basically. He's more likable. 

[00:43:41] Adam Cox: And for him to agree to stick a body in his visa. Mm, he must kind of like or did like Marge, so what went wrong with their relationship? Exactly. 

[00:43:47] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So he works part-time as a science teacher specializing in woodworking and metal work. Mm-hmm. When he's not working at his main job, he's a handyman, and just like Marge, he's a bit of a [00:44:00] misfit in the intellectual world. I get the sense that he finds it extremely frustrating being surrounded by Hicks and idiots in Erie all the time, which is presumably why he becomes a member of a group. They call themselves the fractured intellectuals, a group of intelligent people who struggle to settle into kind of day-to-day life. 

[00:44:18] Once Bill is in custody, he tells police that Marjorie is one of his oldest friends, but he's deathly afraid of her, which isn't surprising, obviously, considering, you know, crazy Marge.

[00:44:27] But he attests that he sticks around because he's the only person who truly understands her. And he doesn't kind of like want to leave her in the world without someone to be able to relate to. Sure. 

[00:44:37] So Bill says that Marge calls him about five weeks earlier saying that she's just shot her boyfriend, James Rodin, after a dispute about money. She wants him to help her get rid of the body. he says he helps because he felt sorry for her, but also because she promised in $2,000. Wow. His price is low. His price is low. I mean, I would hide about it for $2,000. It depends. Who though, I say these things, but in the moment probably wouldn't 

[00:44:59] Adam Cox: like a [00:45:00] hedgehog maybe, but I don't think an actual person.

[00:45:02] Kyle Risi: Yeah, no, I guess so. Who knows? Until we kill someone, 

[00:45:06] Adam Cox: let's hope. We don't have to know. 

[00:45:07] Kyle Risi: So he explains that when he arrived at her house, he loaded James' body into the van and transported it to the freezer in his garage. While they figured out what they were gonna do next together, they then scrubbed down the house and his van with hydrogen peroxide to eliminate any evidence.

[00:45:20] And then about five weeks later, Marge suggests that they rent a wood chipper and a chainsaw so they could chop chains up into little pieces, feed him into the wood chipper, and then she would distribute his remains around the county.

[00:45:32] So it's grim stuff. 

[00:45:33] Yeah. But also quite calculated and smart, if you wanted to dispose of a body. think that's like 1 0 1, right? I dunno. Acid or wood chipper. I mean, that's what I know what I would do for sure. Good to know. 

[00:45:45] So Bill says it was at this point that this was all too much for him. He says the last five weeks has just been absolutely helpful for him and things were just like now starting to go too far. And this is when he decides to call the police. 

[00:45:55] He agrees to give the police a tour around his and Marge's house. It's so [00:46:00] disgusting that the police need a guide. 

[00:46:02] Adam Cox: A guide, yeah. What To walk 'em through the dirt. 

[00:46:04] Kyle Risi: There's just so much stuff in there while they're walking around. His place at 8 6 4 5 p Street, bill is telling police how relieved he is that this is now all over confessing that he had been contemplating suicide and this guy just loves to talk at him. He even shows him the razor blade that he was going to use to kill himself, or he shows him the razor blade that he had already tried to use and it's not quite clear. That's another one of those facts that's really weird. He also shows them his suicide note that he wrote. 

[00:46:31] Adam Cox: It feels like a kid showing off his toys. 

[00:46:33] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it does. 

[00:46:34] Okay. 

[00:46:34] Bizarre. It's bizarre behavior. The police take a look at the note and they read it. Bill realizes in this moment that he's fucked up because in it he had written this is nothing to do with the Wells case.

[00:46:46] Adam Cox: That is weird, 

[00:46:47] Kyle Risi: And it was like someone blurted out, I didn't steal the cookies before anyone even noticed that the cookies were missing from the jar. So bizarre. And he's so intelligent. He's so bright, but yet he fucks [00:47:00] up in such a monumental way, 

[00:47:01] Adam Cox: and that's how he starts 

[00:47:02] Kyle Risi: the suicide note. 

[00:47:04] I think it was in the note somewhere. Okay. Yeah. Might have been on the envelope, but yeah. Bizarre. 

[00:47:09] Adam Cox: Fine. And they're like, we weren't even thinking about that. We were just dealing with his body in a freezer. But now that you've said this, 

[00:47:15] Kyle Risi: yeah. What's going on here? Yeah. So naturally he is taking in for questioning. Meanwhile, the police bring in crime scene investigators who attempt to remove James from the freezer.

[00:47:24] But Adam, his body is so fused to the inside that they have to take the entire freezer to the coroner's office where they have to let it thaw out for four days before they're able to remove James. That rank. Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:35] Back at the police station, bill and Marge are charged with James Rodin's murder. Bill gets out on bail. Crazy. Marge does not. While investigators bill their case against him for James's murder, they also start looking into whether or not this might be connected to the pizza bombing. 

[00:47:51] Right now what they've got is that Bill lives suspiciously close to the transmission tower. Remember that address? It was 8 6 3 1 Peach Street. [00:48:00] Mm-hmm. Bill lives at 8 6 4 5 Peach Street. Okay. Then there's the weird note that says this has nothing to do with the Wells case. Plus, bill and Marge both fit the profile that the FBI put together almost perfectly. Like they were looking for an intellectual, someone with experience in, metalwork and woodworking, just like Bill.

[00:48:19] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:20] Kyle Risi: Able to perhaps make a bomb and crazy Marge. As the name suggests, she just had the right degree of narcissism to pull something like this off. 

[00:48:31] Adam Cox: And these people feel like actually yeah. They're not maybe out to get like loads of money or whatever. I dunno. They've got other motives. Do you think? 

[00:48:39] Kyle Risi: Well, we're gonna come to the motive in a minute. 

[00:48:41] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:41] Kyle Risi: Gonna take us a while to get there. Okay. I'm gonna make you work for it. So they start digging to their past. They uncover all the crazy shit that Marge's been up to, including a couple of firearm charges from 1988.

[00:48:52] Bill, on the other hand, he's squeaky clean, but they do find out that even though Bill claims to live alone, he was actually living with a convicted [00:49:00] rapist named Floyd Stockman, who conveniently moved out on the day of the bombing if Bill was involved, then the guy living with him might know something.

[00:49:10] So they Mark Floyd as a person of interest, but there's a problem. They cannot find him, and this is the only lead that they have. So once again, as time goes on, the case starts to get a bit cold as well. 

[00:49:22] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:23] Kyle Risi: Meanwhile, both Bill and Marge are formally charged with James' murder, Marge for the murder itself, and Bill for obviously tampering with the body.

[00:49:31] They are both set to go to trial. Marge knows that she's gonna be found guilty, so she confesses and she says that she killed James because she was crazy, hoping that she gets a lenient sentence Bill, however. Never makes it to trial because in July, 2004, he checks himself into a hospital after being diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma. And not long after that, he dies. 

[00:49:55] So just like that, a potential crucial suspect in the pizza bombing is now gone, [00:50:00] leaving investigators a yet another dead end. 

[00:50:02] And they know that if they manage to pin this on Marge, there's a very good chance that she's going to try and just blame Bill. Yeah. And he's not around to defend himself.

[00:50:12] Adam Cox: And they never got enough information out from him after that. No. No. So he, he staged him essentially. 

[00:50:17] Kyle Risi: Essentially. Yeah. So Marge goes to trial for James's murder and her crazy defense actually works. She only ends up getting seven years on the condition that when she's released, she has to check herself into a mental health facility. But first she has to serve her time in a maximum security prison, which let's just say she's not happy about. 

[00:50:35] So about a year later in 2005, Marge sends a letter to the FBI and she says that if you transfer me to a minimum security prison in Cambridge Springs, I will give you information about a guy called Ken Barnes.

[00:50:49] And the FBI are like, bitch, we don't know who he is. Who the fuck is Ken Barnes and Mars just like doubles down. She was like, if you transfer me, I will tell you. And the police are just like, no thanks. [00:51:00] Was gonna say we have no interest in Ken Barnes. Yeah. 

[00:51:02] So sensing that she now needs to give them something a bit more concrete. She writes back to the FBI this time she says, I have information about the pizza bombing. This of course makes the FBI Take notice, the lead investigator, Jerry Clark, he goes and visits Marge and lo and behold, Marge says that Bill was the one responsible for the bombing. 

[00:51:20] And Jerry is like, you are gonna have to do way better than that bitch.

[00:51:23] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's obvious that you say that. Obvious. 

[00:51:25] Kyle Risi: Yes. So Margie is like, wait. She then says, on the day of the bombing, bill moved a blue metallic van off of his property and he never brought it back. Okay. 

[00:51:35] Interesting, interesting. So up until this point, the blue metallic van was just a footnote in the case, right?

[00:51:41] It was never made public. It was just a detail that officers noted when they were out retracing the scavenger hunt route. 

[00:51:46] Remember how they just saw the blue metallic van just screeched to a halt before then speeding off again, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:51] So now the FBI agreed that she might know something. They realized that if they wanted to access that information, they needed to keep Marge happy. So she gets transferred to a [00:52:00] minimum security prison in Cambridge Springs, and slowly she starts sharing more and more information. 

[00:52:05] Adam Cox: That doesn't feel right if she's a murderer. But okay, I get it. They need to solve the case. I guess 

[00:52:09] Kyle Risi: they just wanna find out what happened, right? 

[00:52:11] Adam Cox: Yeah. But for the people that are in the minimum security prison, 

[00:52:14] Kyle Risi: I guess once they got the information, they can just move it back.

[00:52:16] Adam Cox: True.

[00:52:17] Kyle Risi: So she starts sharing more and more information. When I say slowly, I mean slowly, because Marge doesn't give anything up voluntarily. I. She's a ranter. And during these rants, she'll just let slip like little bits of useful information and then when they question her about it, she'll be like, what? I never said that She'll like really gaslight them. 

[00:52:35] Adam Cox: Uh, yeah, you did. We just got it on recording. 

[00:52:37] Kyle Risi: So the FBI have to study every single word that she says, and honestly, I feel terrible for whoever has to interview her because Adam, she's brash, she's aggressive, she's manipulative, and she's just an expert filibuster. And she will filibuster you until you are just so exhausted that you just forget what you originally said. I have someone like that in my life. They just will talk and talk and you like, I I this, [00:53:00] I'm gonna die. This is it. This is the end. You're looking at me when you say that I'm not actually looking at you, I'm not.

[00:53:05] So it's during one of these rants that Marge let slip that she had given bill to kitchen timers. And this is huge because two kitchen timers were found inside the bomb.

[00:53:15] Adam Cox: That's right. Yeah. You said there was three in total or something, right? 

[00:53:17] Kyle Risi: Yeah. There was an electronic one that hung lower down. Mm-hmm. She also hints that the reason why she might have killed James was because she needed to silence him. So the FBI follow up on this and she just clams up and she refuses to answer any more questions.

[00:53:31] So naturally the FBI leave wondering, silence him for what? What did James know?

[00:53:38] Adam Cox: Did he know what Bill was up to or what she was up to? Mm-hmm. Must have done. Right.

[00:53:43] Kyle Risi: With Marge no longer talking, they now shift their focus to this guy called Ken Barnes.

[00:53:48] Adam Cox: Oh yeah. The guy that she offered up that no one has a clue about. 

[00:53:51] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Turns out he's an old fishing buddy of Marjorie's, but also a known crack dealer who went by the name Cocaine. Ken. 

[00:53:58] Adam Cox: That's a good name. 

[00:53:59] Kyle Risi: It's a [00:54:00] good name. So they bring him in for questioning. And with zero persuasion, Ken immediately spills, he tells the FBI that Mar offered him $250,000 to kill her father, because according to her. He was giving away all of her inheritance. 

[00:54:14] Adam Cox: Wow. And so she needed now to get 250 grand in order to pay him to bump off her father. 

[00:54:22] Kyle Risi: Exactly. 

[00:54:23] Adam Cox: Wow, this is messy.

[00:54:24] Kyle Risi: So apparently after her father retired, he started donating way too much of his money to various charities, which started to infuriate Marge. She saw it as him literally giving away her money. So she offers Ken the $250,000 to kill him. What she doesn't know though, is that even having him killed is completely pointless because her father's already written her out the will anyway.

[00:54:44] Adam Cox: Well, yeah. She probably shouldn't have killed those other people. 

[00:54:47] Kyle Risi: Yeah, probably. So, the FBI get a warrant to search Ken's house. Just like Bill and Marjorie, it's just disgusting. I honestly think these people belong to some kind of like Hoarders anonymous support group. Adam is just so ranked when you see footage [00:55:00] of their houses, it will literally make you gag. What are they doing? Just get a cleaner. It's not that expensive. So inside they don't really find much, but they do come across a list of local sex workers and just like the one that they found in Brian's house, what connects both these lists is one name, Jessica Hoops sick.

[00:55:18] Adam Cox: Right. Okay. 

[00:55:20] Kyle Risi: So Jessica, however, she's still refusing to speak to the police, but Ken doesn't know this. So when the FBI pretends that they've already spoken to Jessica, he immediately panics and he says, I'll tell you everything. So it's like, what a gamble.

[00:55:33] So he confesses that he Bill Marjorie and Floyd Stockton, remember he's Bill's ex housemate mm-hmm. Had all come up with a plan to raise $250,000 so that Ken could kill Marge's dad. And the plan to raise that money was to rob the PNC bank on Pete Street. 

[00:55:51] He also says that James Rodin finds out about this plan threatens to go to the police, and that is why Marge killed him. Right. And [00:56:00] that's how he ended up in that freezer.

[00:56:01] Adam Cox: Okay, fine. It feels like a bunch of misfits have like, 

[00:56:05] Kyle Risi: oh yeah, 100%. That's such a good way of putting it. 

[00:56:07] Adam Cox: And again, almost feels like it should be like a comedy heist movie, but it's not because obviously it ends in how it ends. Yes. But the way that they've just come together to do this plot to basically get money or bump off Marge's dad.

[00:56:19] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. Okay. Actually, now that you say it, this would be a perfect Hollywood film, wouldn't it? 

[00:56:24] Adam Cox: Yeah. Just a hint out. Any producers that are listening. 

[00:56:27] Kyle Risi: We can do it ourselves. Adam, we own the rights. We set a first. So the FBI go back to March. They're trying to goad her into now talking. They're telling her that Kenneth told them everything and for two years, between the year 2005 and 2007, she just flat out refuses despite her lawyer saying, Mar I I think you should talk now. And the jig is up, bitch. 

[00:56:48] There's a couple other things like she speaks to other inmates and they come forward. But I don't want to confuse you with any anymore names. 

[00:56:53] So eventually the FBI had enough, they move forward with the circumstantial evidence that they had and they file charges [00:57:00] against Marge and Ken who are indicted on charges of armed robbery conspiracy to commit, armed bank robbery and the use of a destructive device in a crime of violence. Bill Rothstein and Brian Wells are both listed as co-conspirators. 

[00:57:14] Adam Cox: Right. Well, bill, I understand, but Brian, how is he connected to this still? I mean, I know we had some question marks of whether he was connected or not. Mm-hmm. But obviously there's a wider gang here. How is he involved with all this? 

[00:57:27] Kyle Risi: Well, I'm gonna explain that to you right now. Because the only person not indicted is Floyd, right? The roommate. Yes. Even though Ken explicitly said that he was involved, and that's because Floyd manages to secure an immunity deal in exchange for testifying against Ken and Marjorie. 

[00:57:42] When they finally track Floyd down, he admits that he was instructed to put the collar bomb on Brian Wells when he arrived at the TV transmission tower. According to him, both Bill and Marjorie were physically not strong enough to do it. However, he adds [00:58:00] that this wasn't on the day of the robbery. This was the day before. The day they held a rehearsal where Brian was fitted with what he believed was a fake bomb. 

[00:58:10] On the day of the robbery, Marjorie and Bill switched the prop for a real one. Apparently this is when Brian tried to back out. There was a scuffle, which explains the shot that the neighbors heard, which they used to try and intimidate Brian into complying.

[00:58:24] Wow. That is what Floyd says. 

[00:58:26] So it is not clear whether or not that is true. It is possible that Brian didn't know at all, and this is based on what we physically see in the CCTV footage. Like his calm behavior, like while robbing the bank and also while sitting handcuffed on the pavement. Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:41] Kyle Risi: And I personally think he didn't know at all. And by Floyd Brandishing Brian as a co-conspirator, that somehow makes it seem less bad for him and the people that did this. 

[00:58:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean he's clearly involved in going along with it, but he's been misled baby in terms of what actually is gonna go down. For sure. And so [00:59:00] why did they switch it for a real bomb? Why did they actually want him dead? The others 

[00:59:04] Kyle Risi: possibly. Yeah. It's difficult to know. So the reason why Brian agreed to do this is because he believed the bond was fake and because he had racked up so much drug debt, not for himself, but for his friend and local sex worker, Jessica Hoops.

[00:59:18] Adam Cox: Oh, and she's the connection. She was on the list, wasn't she? 

[00:59:21] Kyle Risi: She was on the sex worker list that was found in Ken's house and also in Brian's house. And also there's that speculation that they were a lot closer. She was, He was buying her groceries. They spent a lot of time together He didn't take drugs in his own right. But he would buy the drugs for Jessica. 

[00:59:37] Adam Cox: Right. So she, so he did this for her and that's why he was in debt and that's why he maybe agreed to do this in order to get part of that money. 

[00:59:44] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. Floyd also drops another bombshell, Robert Penti. Remember him, Brian's coworker, the one that was found dead before the FBI was set to interview him where he thought like he was in danger. 

[00:59:56] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:56] Kyle Risi: Turns out he was there that day too. [01:00:00] Floyd says that Robert was paid in drugs to make sure that Brian showed up to work that particular day. So now we know Brian was targeted specifically, but the real question is why, Mm-hmm. So maybe when they did the rehearsal, maybe he was a bit apprehensive, maybe didn't really necessarily wanna maybe do it. He'd already committed to it. Maybe he's trying to back out. Right? Maybe he caught wind that they were gonna switch the bomb out for a real bomb. But basically this phonetic guy was instructed to make sure that he makes it to the TV tower that day.

[01:00:30] Adam Cox: Got you. So you could have got cold feet or whatever. Mm-hmm. And they were like, no, we're still going ahead to the plan. And jumped him.

[01:00:36] Kyle Risi: So the thing is, Robert Peretti, did he really die of an overdose or was he paid with the drugs? And those drugs were deliberately laced with something stronger like fentanyl, knowing that he would eventually take those drugs and then overdose and die. And then he's eliminated, keeping the inner circle a bit more closed.

[01:00:54] Adam Cox: Well, considering they're all quite smart, some of these people and also Marjorie is twisted and [01:01:00] killed other people. Mm-hmm. I would believe that they would be able to conjure this up. 

[01:01:04] Kyle Risi: You wouldn't put a pasta. 

[01:01:05] So Ken goes to trial. It is still undecided whether or not Marge is mentally fit to actually go to trial. He ends up plead guilty to using a destructive device during a crime and to conspiracy to commit bank robbery. He ends up getting sentenced to 45 years in prison. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah. Huge, huge amount of time, which he says is the best thing that's ever happened to him because it kept him away from drugs and horse, which I, I just love as a line. 

[01:01:30] Adam Cox: Yeah. Okay. That's one way to do it. 

[01:01:33] Kyle Risi: Eventually Marjorie is deemed fit to stand trial. That's in 2009. 

[01:01:37] Adam Cox: Yeah, I think she's been Sound mind enough? 

[01:01:40] Kyle Risi: Well. It gets delayed again because she discovers a lump in her neck. But when the judge demands her prognosis, the doctors say that she has between three to seven years to live. So the judge is like, bring her to me. Yeah. That's enough time. That is enough time.

[01:01:54] Yeah. Finally in 2011, eight years after the pizza bombing robbery, [01:02:00] Marjorie's found guilty on all charges. She's sentenced to life in prison, plus an additional 30 years, which I think is fair. It's never gonna get out. Yeah. 

[01:02:08] But Adam, the point is, if you haven't picked up on it yet, none of the convictions were for Brian's murder. Even though Floyd admitted to putting the collar around his neck, nobody was ever sentenced for Brian's murder. And his family are just devastated by all of this. They honestly believe that he was innocent, that he was targeted, and he never gets justice. 

[01:02:30] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[01:02:30] And even Floyd, I know he gets immunity 'cause he gave up a lot of this information, but he's the one that put that round Brian's neck. Yeah. Surely he needs some punishment 

[01:02:40] Kyle Risi: and tension, but the fact that he potentially lied and said that he was in on it maybe is not a big deal that he put around his neck. If Brian was innocent, then that makes it way worse. Which I think there's the, the clear motivation for him to lie about whether or not Brian was a co-conspirator or not, because he was the one who physically did it. It makes him look [01:03:00] really guilty if he did that to an innocent person. 

[01:03:01] Adam Cox: Sure. But I sounds like whether Brian was in on it or not, he didn't sign up to be killed. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the difference here. 

[01:03:11] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 100%. That's said so eloquently and sensitively. He didn't sign up to be killed so, like I said, his family are devastated, like they honestly believed he was targeted. 

[01:03:21] And we know this because in 2018, Jessica Hoops sick, the local sex worker whose name was found in Brian's and Ken's house. Mm-hmm. She finally comes forward to tell her side of the story. She says that cocaine, Ken was supplying her with crack cocaine one day when she overheard Ken, Marge, bill and Floyd discussing their plans to rob the PNC bank on Peach Street.

[01:03:42] Mm-hmm. They were talking about how they needed someone who they could control and force into robbing the bank. Jessica says that she knew a guy called Brian Wells, who is an absolute pushover, like no shit. Jessica, the guy was buying you groceries and probably the only person who [01:04:00] ever loved you. 

[01:04:00] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[01:04:01] Kyle Risi: So in exchange for $2,000 and some crack, she introduces Brian to the three of them. According to her, Brian had no idea what they were planning. She says she brought him over to their house the night before so they could observe how placid he was. I think what she's leaving out here is that they did a trial run with a fake bomb the day before. And I don't think she's bringing that up because again, that makes him sound like he was in on it, right? 

[01:04:26] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:04:27] Kyle Risi: So basically afterwards she collects her money and her crack and she spends the next two days high and when she comes down, Brian is dead.

[01:04:35] And she says that is something that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. And I guess she was feeling guilty because she actually really liked him. I dunno whether or not it was love or how close they were. But she liked him. They were friends, but she betrayed him.

[01:04:48] And I guess when you're an addict, you do what you need to do to get your fix right? 

[01:04:53] Adam Cox: Yeah. But did she know, and I'm not like, trying to absolve her from her involvement, but did she know that they [01:05:00] were gonna use a real bomb? 

[01:05:02] Kyle Risi: That's it. I'm not sure if she knew the bomb was real. Yeah. What do you think? Do you think she knew 

[01:05:06] Adam Cox: either way? They've used him as a Guinea pig and maybe they lured him into this going you won't get caught because people will think it's a bomb, it won't go off, they'll save you sort of thing, and you can plead deniability and everything like that. 

[01:05:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Honestly, we don't know. Like those are the details that just, we will never know. There's motivation for people to leave out or change the story. Like Floyd has got the motive to kind of say that he was in on it because it makes what he did less bad. Mm-hmm. And the same with Jessica. I think by her saying that she didn't know it was real, makes her look less bad. All she was trying to do is, oh, poor local sex worker trying to get her fix on her next cocaine kind of stash. You know what I mean? 

[01:05:46] Adam Cox: Even though she's come forward, how much is still left, not revealed? 

[01:05:50] Kyle Risi: That's it. And so Adam, that is the story of Brian Wells and the pizza bomber heist. It was all Marjorie's doing. She wants to get her hands [01:06:00] on her inheritance, which she wouldn't have even gotten anyway. So in the end, this was all for nothing. That was the motive in this case. 

[01:06:09] Adam Cox: Wow. You would've not. I've guessed that from when we started. Mm. In terms of This is how it ended. Geez, what a wild ride. 

[01:06:16] Kyle Risi: Mm. 

[01:06:17] Adam Cox: And I guess the father of Marjorie , how wealthy was he? 

[01:06:22] Kyle Risi: Wealthy enough for her to potentially recover the costs from the $250,000 that she needed to pay him? Potentially. Yeah. I guess you wouldn't do it for like, oh, my inheritance is $75,000. I'd just be like, I'll rob the bank myself. 

[01:06:35] Adam Cox: Yeah. God, I can't believe, yeah, she's a piece of work. 

[01:06:39] Kyle Risi: She's such a piece of work. And Adam, she's such a narcissist and she's hard work. She rants more than I do.

[01:06:45] So shall we run the outro for this week? 

[01:06:47] Adam Cox: Yeah, I need a sit down after all that. 

[01:06:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah, me too. 

[01:06:50] And that brings us to an end of another fascinating foray into the compendium and assembly of fascinating things. We hope you enjoy the ride as much as we did, 

[01:06:59] Adam Cox: and if [01:07:00] today's episode sparked your curiosity, do us a favor and follow us on your favorite podcast app. It makes a world of difference and helps us reach more people that will discover this show. 

[01:07:10] Kyle Risi: And for our dedicated freak to the show. Do not forget the next week's episode is already waiting for you on our Patreon, and it's always free to access. 

[01:07:17] Adam Cox: And of course, if you want even more than join our certified freaks tier to unlock the entire archive, delve into exclusive content and get a sneak peek at what's coming next. We'd love for you to join our growing community. 

[01:07:29] Kyle Risi: Never forget that new episodes drop every Tuesday. And until then, remember when your plan is so complicated that even your co-conspirators don't understand it, maybe it's not the perfect crime after all. 

[01:07:41] See you next week. 

[01:07:42] See ya. [01:08:00]