Charles Manson: The Beatles, Chaos and Murder

In this episode of The Compendium, we dive into one of the most disturbing true crime stories in history—how Helter Skelter, a Beatles song, became the twisted manifesto for Charles Manson and his cult of devoted followers. With his delusional vision of an apocalyptic race war, Manson manipulated the young and lost into committing some of the most infamous murders of the 20th century. From the counterculture movement of the 1960s to the tragic deaths of Sharon Tate and the LaBianca family, we unravel the disturbing intersection of music, crime, and cult psychology. How did a song about a slide become a call to violence? Let’s find out.

We give you just the Compendium, but if you want more, here are our resources:

• Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders – by Vincent Bugliosi and Curt Gentry. 
• Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties – by Tom O'Neill with Dan Piepenbring. 
• The Manson Family – Wikipedia
• Chaos the Manson Murders Netflix Documentry – Errol Morris

Host & Show Info

• Hosts: Kyle Risi & Adam Cox
• About: Kyle and Adam are more than just your hosts, they’re your close friends sharing intriguing stories from tales from the darker corners of true crime, the annals of your forgotten history books, and the who's who of incredible people.
• Intro Music: Alice in dark Wonderland by Aleksey Chistilin

Community & Calls to Action

• ⭐ Review & follow on: Spotify & Apple Podcasts
• 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @theCompendiumPodcast
• 🌐 Visit us at: TheCompendiumPodcast.com
• ❤️ Early access episodes: Patreon

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Chapters

• 0:00 Sneak peak
• 0:53 Welcome to The Compendium
• 2:42 Topic of the week
• 1:17:42 Outro

Transcript

[00:00:01] Adam Cox: Tex, uh, he also sends Susan, and Patricia, and Linda. The women weren't really told the full plan, so only Tex knew what they needed to do, but the women have always been briefed on, like, you need to be prepared to kill. 

[00:00:14] Kyle Risi: Sure, so as far as they're concerned, they're there to kind of like move around some furniture.

[00:00:18] Adam Cox: Yes. I think the instruction that Manson gave to Susan was to do something witchy. 

[00:00:24] Kyle Risi: What does that even mean? I don't 

[00:00:26] Adam Cox: know. They sound very occult y anyway, don't they? 

[00:00:55] Welcome to The Compendium, an assembly of fascinating things. A weekly variety [00:01:00] podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. 

[00:01:04] Kyle Risi: We explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden gems of history and the jaw dropping deeds of extraordinary people.

[00:01:12] I'm Adam Cox, your ringmaster for this episode. And I'm Kyle Recy, your peanut collector for this week. Peanut collector? Yeah, do you know like when people are at the circus and, because budgets are really tight, right? So I reckon that I can save them a hell of a lot of money by going around the stalls at the end of the show and picking up all the discarded peanuts that weren't eaten.

[00:01:34] Adam Cox: I feel like you're jumping on my tails when I was the peanut like stock collector for the elephants. 

[00:01:38] Kyle Risi: Yeah, yeah, but we're a team. So I'm collecting the peanuts to make sure that we don't have to keep reordering new stock. 

[00:01:45] Adam Cox: I see. The team that you didn't realize you needed. 

[00:01:48] Kyle Risi: Exactly. We're like the new doge department for the United States, right? We're like going in, we're slashing costs, we're like eliminating unnecessary spending. Are you comparing us? to Elon Musk and Donald Trump. [00:02:00] Yeah. The President and the First Lady of the United States. Okay, that's a thought. 

[00:02:04] Adam Cox: So before we dive in a quick heads up for all you lovely freaks out there. Remember signing up on our Patreon gives you early access to next week's episode an entire seven days before anyone else? And it's completely free of charge! And if you want even more, you can become a certified freak for a small monthly subscription that unlocks all of our unreleased episodes up to six weeks earlier. It's the best way to support the compendium and keep us growing. 

[00:02:31] Kyle Risi: And while you're at it, don't forget to follow us on your favourite podcasting app and leave us a review. Your support really does help us reach more people, just like you, who love a good story of the unexpected. 

[00:02:42] Adam Cox: Okay, enough of the housekeeping because Kyle, today we're diving into an assembly of rock and roll pop music and how one song in particular became the soundtrack for one of the most infamous crime sprees in history.

[00:02:56] Kyle Risi: I don't know any pop rock bands. Well, most Aerosmith? 

[00:02:59] Adam Cox: You think we're [00:03:00] doing an episode about Aerosmith? 

[00:03:01] Kyle Risi: Possibly. We do cover incredible people. We 

[00:03:03] Adam Cox: do, you're right. 

[00:03:05] Tell me more, tell me more! Well, you've probably heard Helter Skelter by the Beatles. Yes. And maybe you've even cranked up the volume, caught in the raw, frenzied energy of Paul McCartney's screaming vocals. 

[00:03:16] Kyle Risi: No. 

[00:03:17] Adam Cox: Okay, you might have done. But what if I told you that this song, intended as nothing more than just a wild, heavy rock experiment, became something far more sinister in the mind of a madman?

[00:03:28] Kyle Risi: Are we talking about Charles Manson today? Thanks for listening! 

[00:03:31] Adam Cox: Yes, because to Charles Manson, Helter Skelter wasn't just a song, it was a prophecy, a call to roadmap to an apocalyptic race war that in his mind would end with him as some kind of messiah. 

[00:03:45] Kyle Risi: So he thought it was like a prophecy written by the Beatles that was predicting the end of the world, basically.

[00:03:52] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's right because his interpretation of this hidden meaning within that song was so twisted that it led to one of the most shocking murder [00:04:00] sprees in American history. 

[00:04:02] Kyle Risi: Oh, surprise, surprise, another madman kind of misinterpreting lyrics on, on a song. 

[00:04:08] Adam Cox: And so today we're gonna dive into exactly how that all came to be.

[00:04:12] Kyle Risi: Wow, yeah, Charles Manson, who would have thought? Is there any reason why you're picking today's episode? 

[00:04:18] Adam Cox: Well, there may be a documentary coming out on Netflix. 

[00:04:21] Kyle Risi: Oh, surprise. Jumping on that bandwagon. 

[00:04:24] Adam Cox: A little bit, 

[00:04:25] Kyle Risi: I Always love it when we do those types of episodes that have a documentary coming out, because it's almost like a challenge to do all the research that we need to, and then when the episode airs , it's really fun to kind of just see how much we can do. We actually managed to include in a one hour episode rather than four bloody episodes. See, we are committed to bringing you stories without you having to invest in the 10 part miniseries. 

[00:04:48] Adam Cox: Yeah, we give you just enough 

[00:04:49] Kyle Risi: information 

[00:04:50] Adam Cox: to stand your ground at any social gathering. That's the reason we say that, you know.

[00:04:57] Okay, so before Charles Manson became one of the [00:05:00] most infamous killers in American history, He had already spent half of his life behind bars. His descent into crime started young, his biological father supposedly deserted the family when he found out Charles's mother was pregnant and so the mother brought him up by herself but later was arrested and sent to prison for five years which meant he was placed in his aunt and uncle's care. By age nine he had already committed arson, skipped school and was stealing. 

[00:05:26] Kyle Risi: Wow, so classic criminal behaviour. It always is preceded by, like, a really tumultuous upbringing. And I guess, by the sounds of it, he fits that bill perfectly. 

[00:05:38] Adam Cox: Yeah, broken sort of family, in that sense.

[00:05:39] Kyle Risi: Yeah, most criminals, they do fit that, that profile. The only one that hasn't, really, was the episode that we did on, Chris Watts because he actually grew up in a really loving family And then he went off to commit those awful awful crimes. So Charles Manson, basically, he is a toe rag.

[00:05:58] Adam Cox: A toe rag at [00:06:00] this moment in time. Yeah, he's a toe rag, but it gets worse. So Manson ended up at the Indiana Boys School, a reform institution where he was reportedly beaten and abused by both staff and other inmates.

[00:06:13] Oh God. He tried to escape 18 times, and when he couldn't, he created a bizarre survival tactic called the Insane Game. Which meant that whenever he felt threatened, he would scream, Ha ha 

[00:06:24] Kyle Risi: ha ha! That's what I do! Ha ha ha 

[00:06:27] Adam Cox: ha! flail his arms. 

[00:06:29] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 

[00:06:29] Adam Cox: that's what I do as well. And act deranged, hoping it would scare off any potential attackers.

[00:06:34] Kyle Risi: I, okay, I see. So like some animals will have an instinct to just play dead. He pretends he's insane. 

[00:06:40] Adam Cox: Yep, exactly. Start spitting on people's necks. All sorts. Act deranged. And in 1951, he finally managed to escape with two other boys, but instead of laying low, they went on a robbery spree, stealing cars and holding up petrol stations until they were arrested in Utah for driving a stolen vehicle across state lines.

[00:06:58] That then got him sent to the [00:07:00] National Training School for Boys in Washington DC. Their tests revealed he was illiterate but had an above average IQ of 109. 

[00:07:08] Kyle Risi: Oh okay, so he can't read or write, but It's quite smart, actually. Yeah, it's weird that being able to read or write is not an indicator of intelligence at all.

[00:07:18] I think when we did the episode on Dolly Parton, she was talking about one of the most intelligent people she's ever met in her entire life was her father. But he just couldn't read or write. And had he been able to read or write, just think of the things he would have been able to achieve. Now, with Charles Manson, , I've heard he was like super manipulative and Charismatic. Could you say he was charismatic? I would say charismatic, yep. Hmm, but he looks fucking creepy. It's the eyes, isn't it? 

[00:07:42] I can get on board with the charisma. throw in some freaky eyes, I'm like, uh, no. So like, how a lot of people were seduced by him, I just don't know. Because he looks deranged. He didn't just act deranged, Adam. He looks deranged. 

[00:07:55] Adam Cox: It's interesting you say that. I don't know if he always looked deranged.

[00:07:58] Kyle Risi: I've seen a couple of pictures of him [00:08:00] when he was younger and he's got these kind of like little beady mole eyes. And even then they look a bit freaky. 

[00:08:04] Adam Cox: So by 1952, Manson was transferred to a high security reformatory after he was caught assaulting and raping another boy at knife point. I believe he was abused himself, and then it can be common to , carry out those acts on someone else. 

[00:08:17] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's awful, and does, uh, I know it's horrific what he's done and it doesn't always suggest that he might be homosexual, but was he gay?

[00:08:25] Adam Cox: I don't think there's anything that confirms that he was. He definitely has a lot of female lovers when he gets older. 

[00:08:30] Kyle Risi: Okay. 

[00:08:30] Adam Cox: So this is 

[00:08:30] Kyle Risi: just more about exerting power over someone? 

[00:08:32] Adam Cox: Possibly. I didn't get into all the details, because there's obviously a lot to cover.

[00:08:35] But yeah, this is, a very rough upbringing that he went through. And over the next decade, he racks up arrests for car theft, forgery, violating parole, But by the late 1950s, his crimes escalated to pimping, sex trafficking, and fraud. 

[00:08:51] Kyle Risi: Wow, he does it all, doesn't he?

[00:08:52] How old was he when he went to prison? 

[00:08:54] Adam Cox: I think about 17, but he was in other institutions for like, kids. So it's like in and out of 

[00:08:59] Kyle Risi: different [00:09:00] institutions, I see. 

[00:09:01] Adam Cox: Then, in 1960, after fleeing probation, he was finally sentenced to 10 years in prison for fraud. And I think it was for, check fraud? So something really minor, but perhaps with all the other convictions stacked up, that kind of increased his sentencing. 

[00:09:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's like, this is, this is enough. Yeah. Mr. Manson, we have to send you away. 

[00:09:20] Adam Cox: But, yeah, and at this point, Manson had pretty much committed just about every crime imaginable, except murder. 

[00:09:26] Kyle Risi: Oh, so he stole puppies as well. He was a puppy thief. 

[00:09:29] Adam Cox: I wouldn't put it past him. So with nothing but time on his hands behind bars, he found new obsessions, Scientology, and music. 

[00:09:37] Kyle Risi: Ah, do you know what? I did hear a fact about his thing about Scientology, because he went into Scientology when he was in prison, right?

[00:09:43] Yeah. And apparently when he was reading a brochure, because he's, insane, right? And he was reading a brochure on Scientology and he was like, Goddammit, what kind of insanity is this? Now, if you have Charles Manson, that's like, this is batshit crazy. [00:10:00] Then it's like, nah, for Scientology. what I mean? 

[00:10:02] Adam Cox: Yeah, but then I guess he gets involved with it in some way, but I don't really know too much about that route he went down.

[00:10:09] It's more about the music, I think that really became a passion for whilst in prison. And It had already been a part of his life, as a child, he loved the radio, he would be able to play melodies by ear just by listening to them and then playing them back on a piano. 

[00:10:24] Kyle Risi: Oh, cool.

[00:10:24] Adam Cox: But in prison, his passion, deepened for music. So in 1964, four years into his sentence, the Beatles had exploded onto the scene and something had just clicked with him Because at 29 years old, Manson became obsessed. Beatlemania fascinated him, and more than anything, he craved the adoration, the power, the influence that the Beatles had. He wanted screaming fans, blind devotion, and the ability to control a room. 

[00:10:50] Kyle Risi: Oh, I see. So for a second when you said that he became obsessed with it, I just had this fleeting image of, all the screaming girls, and they're fainting and they're going mental. [00:11:00] I imagine him being one of them. And so you said he actually wanted to be the Beatles. He wanted that. He didn't want to be with the Beatles. He didn't want to be a screaming girl. No. 

[00:11:08] Adam Cox: So determined to be a rock star. He begged his mother to send him a guitar whilst in prison, and he took music lessons from fellow inmates, and he played in prison variety shows, and in his own mind he was destined for stardom. And during his time in prison, Manson met Phil Kaufman, A fellow inmate who would later work with the Rolling Stones and Frank Zappa. And Kaufman recognised Manson's passion, but apparently not his talent. ha! Oh no, poor guy! Poor guy, he's a murderer. 

[00:11:37] Kyle Risi: I know, I know. Not at this point. 

[00:11:40] Adam Cox: Fair enough. 

[00:11:41] Kyle Risi: It's like trying to tell your kid, That they're never gonna make it as an artist and maybe they should like pick up a baseball bat instead. 

[00:11:49] Adam Cox: Or be a dentist. Or be a dentist. But Manson, he didn't see it that way. He was convinced he had the x factor. Prison staff encouraged Manson to play his music, and he did. If anything, to keep [00:12:00] him busy and out of trouble. And somehow it worked, because he was so focused on music, he became a model inmate. And his good behaviour, in air quotes I guess, earned him early release in March 1967. 

[00:12:12] Kyle Risi: Okay, so he's out of prison, because he entertained the other prison inmates. 

[00:12:18] Adam Cox: Yeah, because apparently all it takes is a few rounds of kumbaya, and then he's out there walking free. 

[00:12:23] Kyle Risi: Have you listened to any of his music? Is it any good? 

[00:12:25] Adam Cox: No, but apparently it has racked up a lot of streams somewhere. I think it's on YouTube, so you can go listen to it. I didn't get into that because there's a lot to cover in the story. But yeah, he has got music that people do listen to. 

[00:12:36] Kyle Risi: Do you think it's a kind of more of a morbid fascination with him as a person rather than his music?

[00:12:41] Adam Cox: Probably, or just to see if he was any good. 

[00:12:43] Kyle Risi: Mmm, yeah.

[00:12:45] Adam Cox: So he's set free without any close monitoring and no real restrictions. No parole. Yeah, and so he takes a one way ticket to California's Bay Area, where he is about to reinvent himself. And at this time, it was at the height of the counterculture [00:13:00] movement, which was a rejection of mainstream society and authority.

[00:13:03] So it's all about peace and love. The Hite Ashbury district in San Francisco was a magnet for hippies, young men and women, many disillusioned by the Vietnam War, and were rebelling against the materialism and traditional values of their parents. Ah. And they sought love, acceptance and enlightenment, often aided by copious amounts of LSD, of course.

[00:13:23] Of course. And most importantly for Manson, it was a hub for music. There were free concerts and music festivals. This chaos, Manson recognised an opportunity. The era had given rise to spiritual leaders and self styled gurus, and with his natural magnetism and flair for persuasion, Manson felt like he could take on that role. He played his songs, gathered people to sing along, and before long, began collecting followers. 

[00:13:48] And among one of them was 23 year old Mary Bruner, a university librarian who had recently moved from Wisconsin and had few friends. She met Manson while he was hanging around campus playing guitar. He charmed his way [00:14:00] into her home, becoming a freeloading houseguest, And their relationship wasn't initially sexual, but as Manson brought other women into her apartment, Jealousy drove Mary to compete for his affection, and eventually she became both his lover, And his loyal follower.

[00:14:15] Of course Manson was not a man to settle down. He had relations with many women.

[00:14:20] Another one of the followers was 18 year old Lynette Fromm. Estranged from her family and homeless, she was approached by Manson who simply asked her, what's the problem? And I guess she looked like something was on her mind after chatting to him and it only took about to the end of the day, she had then joined him. 

[00:14:38] At first she was uncomfortable with his polygamy, especially when he engaged in a statutory rape with a 14 year old. But to Lynette, she must have overlooked that, and convinced herself that sharing Manson's attention was better than being cast out.

[00:14:52] Kyle Risi: Just like, oh, at first I was uncomfortable with the polygamy, until I found out. He, Raped someone. [00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Adam Cox: Yeah. He obviously had a gift on preying on women who felt lost and unwanted and played on their insecurities. 

[00:15:06] Kyle Risi: I guess he could offer them community 

[00:15:08] Adam Cox: But for him to, make them accept that this was okay, that's quite a lot of influence and persuasion that he had. 

[00:15:15] Kyle Risi: I think it also a lot has to be said for the time that people were living in because people were desperate to break away from the norm. This is where these big ideas search for spiritual enlightenment and spiritual freedom and things like that, and anti government and anarchism this is the era that laid down the framework for what would happen in the satanic panic in the 80s. But I get it people were just all over the country just desperate to Find a community. 

[00:15:43] Adam Cox: Absolutely. And that's how he pulled in 19 year old Patricia Krenwinkel, who he renamed Katie for some reason. Because her name was Krenwinkel. So he's like, You'll be Katie from now on. 

[00:15:55] She had struggled to find a sense of belonging, bouncing between homes of her divorced [00:16:00] parents, and in 1967 she had met Manson at a friend's gathering, and after a single night together, she vowed to follow him anywhere.

[00:16:08] So whatever he said to these women, he captivated them. 

[00:16:10] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so he's got like a whole harem of women now. Well, three, three women. 

[00:16:14] Adam Cox: Yeah, he's got Mary, Lynette, and Patricia, or Katie. And these are the first so called Manson girls. And these are young women willing to do anything for him.

[00:16:23] And with them, his cult began to take shape. 

[00:16:26] Kyle Risi: But why women though specifically? Was he not very good at manipulating the men? I guess he's gonna need some men to do some of the heavy lifting. 

[00:16:33] Adam Cox: Men do join, but I think it was very easy for him to prey on these women to bring them in. 

[00:16:39] Kyle Risi: And were these women like quite attractive?

[00:16:42] Adam Cox: I guess so, they're young women, so he would seduce them and, offer them all this opportunity or, I don't know, words of encouragement, whatever he did, and we'll get on to why he was so influential, what could have enabled him to be able to do this so quickly with [00:17:00] people a little bit later on.

[00:17:01] Kyle Risi: I'm wondering whether or not, though, he is obviously very good with women. Um, And he can clearly identify these vulnerable women. He can manipulate them, bring them in. They're all gorgeous. And then they're the ones that are going to lure in the actual men that they need for the commune, do you think there's any truth in that? 

[00:17:19] Adam Cox: I think he uses the women, as he offers them up to men that he gets involved with or works with. 

[00:17:26] Kyle Risi: So he's using these women as a lure? 

[00:17:29] Adam Cox: Yeah, , I don't know if it was a byproduct Or whether that was ever intentional, but he's found an opportunity because he's got these beautiful women.

[00:17:37] . Yeah, he would use them as a way of going, Oh, can we stay with you? My cult, my gang, my family. And you can see they'll do a naked scarf dance. Yeah, you can sleep with like, yeah, you can sleep with any of the women essentially. 

[00:17:49] So I don't know if he used that as buying power or if that was, like I say, a by product of just recruiting these women.

[00:17:55] Another one of these lost souls was Susan Atkins. She was fresh outta jail. In [00:18:00] 1967. She had been living in a commune, taking drugs and working as a dancer when she met Manson. And he welcomed her into his growing family. And soon after, he packed his followers into a VW mini buss and headed to Los Angeles determined to become a rockstar. 

[00:18:14] In L. A., Manson and his followers stayed at the Spiral Staircase, a home known for attracting artists and drifters. Among those who were joining him at this point was 14 year old Diane Lake, so really young, the people that he was recruiting. 

[00:18:28] Her parents were part of a commune, and she later described falling into Manson's group as like a raindrop joining a puddle.

[00:18:35] Aww. I guess just being absorbed. That's what I imagined from that. 

[00:18:38] Kyle Risi: But I also imagined the puddle being quite muddy. 

[00:18:40] Adam Cox: It gets muddy. The family increased to around about 20 members, all drawn in by Manson's charm. Then, a breakthrough came. While wandering Hollywood, two of Manson's followers met Dennis Wilson, a drummer from the Beach Boys.

[00:18:53] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm. 

[00:18:54] Adam Cox: After a casual afternoon at his home, they returned to Manson, who immediately demanded they take him to [00:19:00] Wilson's house. When Wilson came back from a recording session, he found Manson and his followers waiting for him, ready for a party. Wilson, eager for new experiences, was like, yeah, sure, you can stay at my place.

[00:19:11] And days turned into weeks, and Manson took full advantage at, staying at Wilson's house. 

[00:19:17] Kyle Risi: Wow. So hang on a minute, just so I understand that. So a couple of these followers that were out, they bumped into Dennis Wilson. Then they go back to Charles Manson like, you'll never guess who the fuck we just met. And he's like, who? It's like, Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys. And he's like, I want to be a musician. Take me to his house right now. 

[00:19:35] Adam Cox: Yeah, and then promised a good time. And yeah, 

[00:19:37] Kyle Risi: we gave him some drugs and LSD. So there's going to be he's going to ask for something, right? He's going to ask him to help him break into music or something. 

[00:19:44] Adam Cox: Yeah, he's trying to get a leg up and obviously become a rock and roll star. Manson's followers, this was proof of his mystical power, a sign that he had manifested a connection to the music industry. But in reality, he's just exploiting another target. 

[00:19:57] Kyle Risi: But isn't that how the world works? [00:20:00] You exploit an opportuni I mean, I mean, he's a vicious murderer. But that's how the world works, right? People identify opportunities and they're ruthless and they're charismatic enough to try and take advantage of it. And also he has a little packet of LSD. 

[00:20:14] Adam Cox: Yeah, just wherever he goes. 

[00:20:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 

[00:20:15] Adam Cox: a little LSD. Wilson, the drummer, was apparently fascinated by Manson's philosophical ramblings and saw him as a bit of a guru. Like many of Manson's recruits, Wilson was searching for meaning and Manson was an expert at pretending to provide it. 

[00:20:30] Dennis Wilson became so taken with Manson that he let him and his followers stay at his home all summer. And in return, Manson offered up the women in his group enforcing his rule that they obey his every command, including sleeping with anyone he chose.

[00:20:44] Kyle Risi: Wow. I'm getting like very much guru vibes, but he is full of shit, right? Yeah. Dennis Wilson, he believes that he's quite philosophical and things like that, but that's a veneer, right? 

[00:20:57] Adam Cox: It's interesting. A few people really buy into [00:21:00] Manson, and others are like, oh, you're just showing me a good time. I don't think you're all that good, but the fact that you're offering me all these women and a place to crash and LSD sounds like fun. 

[00:21:10] Kyle Risi: Yeah, sure.

[00:21:11] Adam Cox: The other thing is that the women in his group, if they hesitated, in doing what he said, he supposedly used guilt, manipulation, or violence to keep them in line.

[00:21:19] And so, now that Manson's group had a place to stay for a whole summer, Manson could then focus on his music. 

[00:21:25] Wilson praised his songs, even convincing the Beach Boys to record a song called Never Learn Not to Love, which was a reworked version of a Manson song called Cease to Exist.

[00:21:36] Kyle Risi: Oh, I have heard of this before. Wasn't he, eventually, years later, he came forward and said, He was really unhappy with their remake of their song. They changed the meaning, the underlying meaning of what was really there. 

[00:21:49] Adam Cox: Yeah, because Manson said that he had written it as a personal message for the band, inspired by these tensions between Wilson and his brothers. It was recorded in 1968 at the Beach Boys private studio, [00:22:00] and the song was like, heavily altered, like you say. With different lyrics, a different arrangement, and most importantly, Manson's name was removed from the credits. Oh no. 

[00:22:08] But Wilson said that he paid Manson off with cash and a motorcycle, but apparently that wasn't enough.

[00:22:13] Kyle Risi: He needed a little baggie of LSD. 

[00:22:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, Manson was furious that they had erased his words and stolen this kind of moment of fame from him. But perhaps at the time he was like, yeah, I just need the cash and a motorcycle, that's fine.

[00:22:24] Still, Wilson wasn't the only music industry figure he had met. Wilson introduced him to record producer Terry Melcher, who was the son of actress and singer Doris Day. So this connection with Terry Melcher would actually change everything. For Manson, Melcher was this ultimate industry connection but there was a problem. Melcher didn't like him. Unlike Wilson, Melcher wasn't drawn to Manson's mysticism, and he kept his distance. Manson would spend months trying to get closer, even angling for an invite to Melcher's house, but was repeatedly rejected. 

[00:22:57] Despite the setback, Wilson introduced Manson to [00:23:00] plenty of others who were intrigued by him, one person was talent agent Greg Jacobson, who briefly considered making a documentary about Manson's group that summer. While drafting a proposal, he referred to them as The Family, a name Manson eagerly adopted, officially naming his group, The Manson Family. 

[00:23:17] Kyle Risi: Wow, so that came from this guy here. 

[00:23:19] Adam Cox: Yeah. Interesting. 

[00:23:20] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:23:20] Adam Cox: Around the same time, Manson reconnected with his former prison buddy, Phil Coffman, the guy that, is now working actually with the Rolling Stones.

[00:23:27] Coffman wasn't particularly impressed by Manson's music. He wasn't in prison, and he's still like, you haven't got any better. He enjoyed partying with his followers. And so he was like, yeah, let's, let's hang out. And he basically gives them a bit of a promise, like, oh, yeah, maybe we'll record an album.

[00:23:41] We'll, we'll talk about it. Yeah, because he's there for the party, 

[00:23:44] Kyle Risi: right? He's there for the lols. And he's Oh, I need these lols to carry on for a long time. I'm just gonna string him along a bit. A 

[00:23:50] Adam Cox: little bit . And For Manson, he's like, great, this is, this is it, meanwhile, Dennis Wilson, the guy where the Manson family were staying that whole summer, was getting a little bit tired of the chaos. [00:24:00] Uh, between damages, medical bills 

[00:24:03] Kyle Risi: Damages! What they were like, Like, shitting him over the house and stuff. 

[00:24:06] Adam Cox: And they weren't good house guests. 

[00:24:09] Kyle Risi: How many were there at this point? 

[00:24:10] Adam Cox: When they went to LA, there was about 20. So whether they were all staying. 

[00:24:15] There's a lot, yeah. 

[00:24:16] Kyle Risi: And this guy dennis Wilson just let them all stay in his house. 

[00:24:19] Adam Cox: Whether it was all 20, I don't know. Oh God. But a good chunk of them. Sure. Um, plus there was drugs and there was food that he was trying to like pay for them.

[00:24:26] So apparently it cost him about a hundred thousand dollars. I don't know if that was then money or today's money, but even still, that's a lot. 

[00:24:33] Kyle Risi: See, this is not too dissimilar from, what L. Ron Hubbard did. Do you remember back when we did the Scientology story, when he started out, he joined, this famous guy had, this artist's guild, and he lived in this big mansion in LA.

[00:24:46] And basically, loads of artists just lived in his mansion. And he would just come and go and there's loads of drugs and shit going on. This sounds very much like that, where just these really creative, genius people come together. They take a lot of LSD and they just live in this rich [00:25:00] person's house.

[00:25:01] Adam Cox: A little bit, I guess. Um, it's just that maybe Manson wasn't as good as he made out. But yeah, for Wilson, his home was overrun, and so eventually he evicted them. But undeterred, Manson secured a new place at Spahn Ranch. Now, the elderly owner, George Spahn, let them stay in exchange for labor, and of course, you guessed it Drugs.

[00:25:19] No, the companionship of Manson's female followers. Gross. Of course. Of course. After moving to Sponranch, Manson's teachings took a darker turn, so his usual sermons about love and freedom shifted towards these apocalyptic visions of an impending race war, what he called Helter Skelter. 

[00:25:37] Kyle Risi: Okay, and it's the Beatles song that inspired this, is that right? 

[00:25:41] Adam Cox: Yeah, because by late 1968, Manson had become obsessed with the White Album by the Beatles and convinced it contained coded messages just for him. 

[00:25:53] Kyle Risi: Had he ever met the Beatles at this point? Nope. He's a madman. 

[00:25:59] Adam Cox: Yeah, he [00:26:00] believed the song Blackbird and Rocky Raccoon were about black people rising up, and piggies, was a song calling for the downfall of the elite, and Revolution 9 was a prophecy about chaos. 

[00:26:10] Sir Manson believed that black people, after centuries of oppression, were destined to rise up and exterminate white society. 

[00:26:18] Kyle Risi: Oh, so he's racist in his views. He's not been an activist for black people.

[00:26:22] Adam Cox: Exactly , he's for the chaos that this could bring that actually an impending war is coming because this is all at the time of the civil rights movements .

[00:26:32] Kyle Risi: Okay. So, okay. I'm clear. So this album he feels has been written for him from a bunch of people from Liverpool who's got nothing to do with American politics or history. And there are some Lakota messages in there about this impending race war that's coming up, which is rooted on the fact that so many black African Americans have been oppressed for so many centuries. Now is their time. 

[00:26:55] Adam Cox: Of course, if you actually listen to the lyrics, the Beatles have said that that was never the [00:27:00] intent. He's just interpreted them in a way that, well, I don't know. 

[00:27:04] Kyle Risi: Of course! Can you imagine, like, uh, so what was the inspiration behind the White Album? And then, Paul McCartney goes, yeah, we decided that we wanted to, write, an apocalyptic kind of, prophecy album for, Charles Manson.

[00:27:18] Who's Charles Manson? Um, yeah, he's just some guy who, squats in, famous people's houses and feeds them LSD. And we thought that he was, like, the best person to usher in this, new world. He's just so stupid! 

[00:27:31] Adam Cox: Exactly. Some of the lyrics is just, they're just lyrics for a song.

[00:27:34] It's, uh, Helter Skelter, I think, in fact, is just about a slide. I don't think there's any more meaning than that. 

[00:27:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 'cause the health scale is a slide, right? Yeah. . So it's one of those slides that you see at the circus that go round and round and round this big cone shape, right?

[00:27:47] Yeah. And 

[00:27:48] Adam Cox: you sit in like a little potato sack or something and you go down. And I think the thing is, if Manson hadn't found this prophecy, or so called prophecy, in their music He wouldn't have he wouldn't have Purpose in his life! Well, he would have found it in something else. Probably like [00:28:00] Like Kellogg's Cornflakes or something. God. Probably. 

[00:28:04] And to his followers, especially under the influence of LSD, Manson's warped interpretations felt like gospel, essentially, and convinced that they had unlocked the Beatles secret message that the Manson family even attempted to contact the Beatles themselves, unsurprisingly, they didn't get a response.

[00:28:21] Kyle Risi: No comment. 

[00:28:23] Adam Cox: As Manson tightened his grip on his followers, he pushed for complete isolation. And at Spahn Ranch, it wasn't remote enough. He wanted somewhere truly hidden. When one member mentioned her grandparents property in Death Valley, Manson said, Yep, let's go there.

[00:28:38] And with a couple of small houses and a shed, seemed like the perfect hideout for the apocalypse. And in the fall of 1968, the group visited, and Manson secured permission to stay. But they weren't ready to settle. He left a few members behind while the rest stayed on at Spahn Ranch, and they were stockpiling food, weapons, and modifying dune buggies with armor ready for this impending war.

[00:28:59] Kyle Risi: Sounds very, [00:29:00] uh, like Mad Max. 

[00:29:01] Adam Cox: Yeah, it does, doesn't it? And despite all this preparation, Manson remained obsessed with his music career and his role in the impending war. And I guess if you mix enough drugs, violence, and crime, you can convince yourself of just about anything.

[00:29:13] Kyle Risi: So what does he think his role's gonna be? He's the Messiah. In terms of 

[00:29:16] Adam Cox: music. He's like Jesus Christ, I guess. 

[00:29:19] Kyle Risi: He's gonna get on stage and like, delivering these sermons, but like, in shitty rock songs. 

[00:29:25] Adam Cox: Yeah, I think so. Whilst in like, army gear, I don't 

[00:29:28] Kyle Risi: know.

[00:29:29] Adam Cox: So Manson still determined, whilst preparing for war, to land a record deal, and Manson kept pushing Terry Melcher, the music producer and son of Doris Day, that had rejected Manson and Melcher still is not impressed with his music. But he was intrigued by his eerie charisma, and once again, he liked the women that Manson had kept at Spahn Ranch. It's always the women! Yeah, he briefly entertained the idea that Manson might be worth working with. And in March 1969, Melcher finally agreed to visit [00:30:00] Spahn Ranch. 

[00:30:01] Manson became obsessive, Rehearsing non stop with his chosen backup singers and he made an exception to his usual disregarded appearance by ordering his followers to sew him a fringe buckskin suit and deep clean the ranch and normally the followers They just survive off bin scraps.

[00:30:17] Kyle Risi: Mm 

[00:30:17] Adam Cox: hmm, but the family even baked for this occasion. They were going all out LSD cookies. It's like when you got a, like a home showing, you put, put some bread in the oven, whatever, make it smell nice. That's what they're doing. They're trying to impress him, I get it. It's a big, it's a big moment.

[00:30:32] So they're waiting and Melcher doesn't show. Oh no. The rejection hits Manson hard. He prided himself on being seen as infallible, and to his followers, if they doubted his music, they might start doubting him.

[00:30:46] And desperate to save face, he convinced Melcher to reschedule. And on May the 18th, 1969, Melcher finally arrived, and Manson performed his best set yet. 

[00:30:57] But Melcher? Still not [00:31:00] impressed. 

[00:31:02] Kyle Risi: He's like, yeah, yeah, great music. Have you got any more of those girls? And some LSD. And some LSD. And, and like those cookies I could smell when I came in? Yeah. Yeah, bring me some LSD. 

[00:31:10] Adam Cox: So instead of a deal, he basically handed Manson 50 and the name of a producer who kind of recorded tribal music as a sort of a polite dismissal. And so like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but here's some money. Go run along. 

[00:31:22] But Manson refused to admit defeat. He told his followers that the money, that was a signing bonus. 

[00:31:28] Still, there was this sense of rejection, and when Melcher and Dennis Wilson cut ties completely with Manson, his bitterness turned to rage, and he blamed the entire music industry for his failure and fixated on one place in particular, 10, 050.

[00:31:44] Cielo Drive, Melcher's former home. 

[00:31:48] Kyle Risi: His former home? So he doesn't live there anymore? 

[00:31:49] Adam Cox: Doesn't live there anymore. He lived there about a year ago. 

[00:31:52] Kyle Risi: Okay, 

[00:31:52] there must be a reason why he's going there, though. 

[00:31:55] Adam Cox: He targets that area is He knows that there's famous people that live there [00:32:00] and he is trying to incite chaos and start a race war and the best way to get, attention and in the news he believes is to, , , attack famous people, essentially.

[00:32:10] I see. 

[00:32:11] By the summer of 1969, the Manson family had transitioned from a free love sex cult, into a full blown doomsday group preparing for Helter Skelter. And why is it that nothing good ever comes from a sex cult? 

[00:32:23] Kyle Risi: Yeah, to be fair, nothing good ever does come from a sex cult. But Lisa, Preparing. They've got cans of beans under their bed, and little suitcases just in case like they need to go into a bomb shelter. 

[00:32:33] Adam Cox: And a pitchfork. And a pitchfork. 

[00:32:34] To prepare for this upcoming war, he tested his followers on their obedience. And he did that through what he called, Creepy Crawlings.

[00:32:42] Kyle Risi: Oh god. 

[00:32:43] Adam Cox: These were bizarre night time missions where his followers broke into homes, rearranged furniture, and left without taking anything. 

[00:32:51] Kyle Risi: What? So purely just to test their loyalty as you've said, so are they willing to just break into someone's house? Because I said so. 

[00:32:58] Adam Cox: Exactly. 

[00:32:59] Kyle Risi: And it's probably going to [00:33:00] escalate from there.

[00:33:00] Adam Cox: Yeah, and I think that one of the purposes was to desensitize them to fear and teach them to move undetected and reinforce his control. Okay, interesting. Just like, I don't know, like Creep in the Shadows type thing. 

[00:33:11] Kyle Risi: Ah, hence creepy crawlings. 

[00:33:13] Adam Cox: These break ins were initially non violent, but Manson did say to his followers that they should carry knives, just to be prepared and be ready to use them.

[00:33:22] By mid 1969, Manson was growing impatient. The family wasn't ready for this race war, and they needed more food, more weapons, and more supplies. 

[00:33:29] MORE GANS OF BEANS! 

[00:33:30] And to get cash fast, he sent one of his members of his cult, a guy called Tex Watson, on a mission. Tex had set up a fake drug deal, arranging to sell 25 kilos of marijuana to a buyer willing to pay up front.

[00:33:42] But Tex, he didn't have those drugs. His plan was to take the money and disappear before the guy could catch on. It didn't work. The buyer, known as Lots a Papa, quickly tracked Tex back to Spahn Ranch and called, demanding either his drugs, or for his money back.

[00:33:58] And Manson was trying to play it [00:34:00] cool, claiming that he didn't know where Tex was. Then when Lotsa Poppa made a threat, he claimed to be a member of the Black Panthers. 

[00:34:06] Kyle Risi: Oh!

[00:34:07] Adam Cox: And if he didn't get what he was owed, he and his people would come back to Spahn Ranch and kill everyone. 

[00:34:12] Right. 

[00:34:13] Now Lotsa Poppa wasn't a Black Panther. He just used that, to try and seem like he was a big deal. 

[00:34:19] Kyle Risi: Because they were big and notorious. 

[00:34:20] Adam Cox: Yeah. But Manson, he believed him and that was enough. Determined to handle the situation, Manson grabbed a gun and took family member T. J. Wolleman with him to Lotsa Puppa's apartment. 

[00:34:30] The plan was simple, Manson would hide the gun in his waistband, and when he gave the signal, T. J. would grab it and shoot. But when they got there, T. J. hesitated. He expected Lotsa Puppa to be alone, but instead there were other guys there. 

[00:34:42] So it got complicated, and Manson unfazed, he gives the nod to TJ to shoot Lotsa Puppa and TJ, he basically hesitates, he knows what he needs to do, but he doesn't want to do it.

[00:34:54] Manson grabs the gun himself and shoots lots of Papa in the chest.

[00:34:57] The man collapsed and Manson and TJ [00:35:00] fled. They go back to Spun Ranch And Manson brags to his followers claiming he had just taken down a Black Panther for their protection. 

[00:35:06] Kyle Risi: Wow. 

[00:35:07] Adam Cox: TJ, however, he's terrified by Manson and, his own failure to act and worried that actually maybe they might kill him. So this, to the family, it was a bit of a warning. TJ, terrified by Manson and, failing to act, basically goes on the run because he fears for his life. 

[00:35:21] Manson had made it clear. If you wanted to stay, you had to be ready to kill shortly after lots of Papa's death. Some of Manson's followers had one of their drug dealers, a guy called Gary Hinman. Held hostage for two days in his house because they felt he had tried to con them out of good drugs.

[00:35:38] Essentially. It leads to Manson's followers torturing him for money before eventually killing him.

[00:35:43] And before leaving, one of the family members, a guy called Bobby Bossolet, dips his fingers in the drug dealer's blood and writes political piggy on the wall, along with a paw print in an attempt to frame the Black Panthers and spark a racial, riot, essentially.

[00:35:59] Kyle Risi: So he is [00:36:00] essentially trying to accelerate this race war by incriminating the Black Panthers. 

[00:36:04] Adam Cox: Yeah, exactly. And Bobby ends up stealing Gary Hinman, the drug dealer's car. This car breaks down and when highway patrol officers stopped to help, they run the plates and find an active search on that vehicle.

[00:36:17] And it didn't take them long for the police to link him to the crime. And his fingerprints are obviously everywhere, because they managed to, match a thumbprint found at Hinman's house. And just like that, he's arrested and charged for murder.

[00:36:30] Whilst the Black Panthers, they were never even suspected. So Manson's plan had failed. 

[00:36:35] Kyle Risi: So they didn't even see the paw print in the political piggy. 

[00:36:37] Adam Cox: I think they saw it, but there wasn't enough evidence to connect the Black Panthers. 

[00:36:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly, because a paw print is like, What does that mean? Yeah, exactly. Oh, a dog committed this murder. 

[00:36:47] Adam Cox: Manson started to panic. He feared that Bobby, he might talk and might name Manson as a co conspirator. So over the next few days, Manson, he became really agitated [00:37:00] and he realizes that, this murder, it should have sparked something and Helter Skelter still was not in motion.

[00:37:07] Instead, it didn't really make an impact. There was no race war, no society collapse, and things had to change, which means they needed to escalate things. They needed to do something bigger. 

[00:37:17] Kyle Risi: Ooh, what are they going to do, Adam? What are they going to do?

[00:37:20] Adam Cox: So Manson gathers the family. On the night of August the 8th, 1969, Manson pulls aside Tex Watson and gives him explicit instructions. He tells Tex, the guy that scammed lots of papa, to go to Cielo Drive, the home where Terry Melcher used to live, because Manson knew that the people living there now were rich and famous and they were going to be the perfect victims of his crimes.

[00:37:43] Kyle Risi: So it was purely random, all they cared about was that it was something that was rich, And famous. 

[00:37:48] Adam Cox: And would make national news,,. 

[00:37:49] Kyle Risi: Make 

[00:37:49] national news.

[00:37:50] . Okay, and I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that the person living there right now is Sharon Tate. 

[00:37:56] Adam Cox: Yeah, yes she is. And Manson had said to Tex [00:38:00] that you need to kill everyone in the house. Totally destroy them and make it basically really gruesome. 

[00:38:05] Kyle Risi: Wow. So Manson wasn't actually there. He just sends his cronies to do it. 

[00:38:11] Adam Cox: What a coward. He sends Tex, uh, he also sends Susan, and Patricia, and Linda. So three of the women. The women weren't really told the full plan, so only Tex knew what they needed to do, but the women have always been briefed on, like, you need to be prepared to kill, but they didn't know that's what they were going to be doing that night. 

[00:38:29] Kyle Risi: Sure, so as far as they're concerned, they're there to kind of like move around some furniture.

[00:38:33] Adam Cox: Yes. I think the instruction that Manson gave to Susan was to do something witchy. 

[00:38:39] Kyle Risi: What does that even mean? I don't 

[00:38:42] Adam Cox: know. They sound very occult y anyway, don't they? Yeah, a little bit, out there.

[00:38:46] Texts would, however, reveal the truth when they got there. 

[00:38:49] And now feels like a good time to take a break. And when we come back, we'll go into what happened that fateful night and the aftermath of the Manson murder spree. 

[00:38:57] Welcome [00:39:00] back. So, Kyle, charles manson has just sent four of his followers to Cielo Drive, where the rich and famous live, to carry out a murder. And the whole purpose is to start a big race war. 

[00:39:12] Now, most of what we know about this night actually comes from the Manson family members themselves. So their accounts could be taken, or should be taken I should say, with a grain of salt. 

[00:39:21] Kyle Risi: I mean, they were there. So, if anything, we shouldn't take their account with a grain of salt. That's the only one that was actually there that saw things. 

[00:39:28] Adam Cox: True, but I guess they might embellish, they might hide things, that's what I mean.

[00:39:32] Kyle Risi: All right, so not to incriminate themselves too much. 

[00:39:34] Adam Cox: Yeah, but here's what we do know that happened that night. Okay. So just after midnight on August the 9th, 1969, Tex and the three Manson women drove into Benedict Canyon. The four drive up to the house. Now, Tex and Susan were high on meth. Having snorted it before leaving.

[00:39:51] Tex was already under the influence of LSD and mescaline from earlier that day, and so We're feeling the effects of multiple drugs. And so, the thought of [00:40:00] going to do a murder whilst high. 

[00:40:01] Kyle Risi: I think it's sometimes the only way that you could do it. 

[00:40:04] Adam Cox: Maybe. Maybe. But anyway, this was the kind of, state of mind that they were in and obviously maybe it allowed them to do the gruesome things that they would go on to do. 

[00:40:13] Kyle Risi: Oh God, I don't even know the details of what's going to happen. Do we need a trigger warning? 

[00:40:18] Adam Cox: There are some not nice bits, but I will warn you when we get to that bit.

[00:40:20] Kyle Risi: Okay. 

[00:40:21] Adam Cox: So the house was set back from the road. There was a warm lamplight glowing through the trees. Tex hops out first, cutting the telephone line with wire cutters. Then he motions to the woman to follow. Linda at this point didn't question why Tex was carrying a rope and a gun. 

[00:40:36] It is a bit odd. For creepy crawlings. 

[00:40:37] Kyle Risi: Yeah, for just like moving some furniture around. Oh, where's the milk? 

[00:40:43] Adam Cox: They slip back to the property, scaling a fence and creeping through the thick trees and bushes, and then these headlights start to show. A car was coming down the driveway and someone was leaving the house.

[00:40:52] Now, as I mentioned around a year earlier, the record producer Terry Melcher had lived there, but by the summer of 1969, the home was rented to [00:41:00] director Roman Polanski and his wife. Sharon Tate. 

[00:41:03] Kyle Risi: Roman Polanski. Is that who she was married to? 

[00:41:06] Adam Cox: Yeah. Really? And she was a rising Hollywood star. Yeah. So she was a Hollywood darling. 

[00:41:12] Kyle Risi: Am I correct? Hopefully I'm not spoiling anything. But was she like heavily pregnant? 

[00:41:15] Adam Cox: She was, yeah. 

[00:41:17] Kyle Risi: That's awful. 

[00:41:18] Adam Cox: she was just two weeks from her due date. Really? That late? That night. Polanski was in Europe filming a movie, she had stayed behind in Los Angeles because, yeah, she couldn't fly. Can't fly, yeah. To keep her company, however, she had invited two close friends to move in. 

[00:41:33] A guy, and I'm gonna probably butcher this pronunciation. 

[00:41:37] Kyle Risi: In classic Kyle fashion. 

[00:41:38] Adam Cox: Yeah, Wojciech Frykowski. He was a long time friend of Polanski's. And then Abigail Yeah she was Frykowski's girlfriend and heir to the Folger Coffee fortune, which is like instant coffee in the U. S. you know

[00:41:51] Kyle Risi: Don't you wanna Senka Senka? Don't you wanna Senka Senka? It doesn't keep me up at night. 

[00:41:57] Adam Cox: But it helps me [00:42:00] poo. I don't know if it's from that, though. No. That evening, another guest had also joined them. So Tate's friend and hairstylist, Jay Sebring, so there was four people in the house and the property also had a guest cottage where the caretaker, William Garretson, lived.

[00:42:15] And that night he had a visitor, his friend, Steve Parent, who had dropped by for a quick visit. Now at 12. 15, Steve Parent was leaving. 

[00:42:25] It was his headlights the Manson family had seen coming down the drive, not anyone that Sharon knew specifically. 

[00:42:31] Tex motions to the woman to get down and stay out of sight. Then, as Steve's car rolls closer, Tex steps out onto the driveway and raises his gun. Steve Herron panics and pleads to not hurt him. Tex doesn't care though, and without hesitation he slashes Steve's arm with a knife then fires four shots.

[00:42:52] The teenager slumps forward and is dead. 

[00:42:55] Kyle Risi: Shit. 

[00:42:56] Adam Cox: Linda. Is like shock. She's like, I didn't expect this is [00:43:00] what we're gonna be doing tonight. 

[00:43:00] Kyle Risi: I thought we're moving milk . 

[00:43:02] Adam Cox: Yeah. And there's no time to really process what has just happened. Tex orders her to take, Steve's wallet and her hands are trembling as she reaches into his pocket Uhhuh, and then Tex gives another command to go back to the house and stand watch.

[00:43:15] So they just basically rob him for his money. 

[00:43:17] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:17] Adam Cox: As Linda moves into position, Tex, Susan and Patricia, they crept towards the front of the house, each gripping a knife. Linda watches in horror as Tex slowly slices through the screen door, then the three of them disappear inside. 

[00:43:31] Kyle Risi: Wow. 

[00:43:32] Adam Cox: What happens next is pure terror. So this is where it's going to get a little bit graphic. So if you prefer to skip this section, maybe just jump forward about five minutes . 

[00:43:41] So inside, the intruders find Wotjech Frykowski asleep on the couch. He stares awake and he's confused and he's What the hell do you want?

[00:43:49] Apparently texts her something like, I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business. Really? Then he kicks Frykowski in the head, hard. And meanwhile, Susan and Patricia, they search the house and they find [00:44:00] Abigail, Sharon, and Jay in their bedrooms. Brandishing a knife, they force all three into the living room, where Tex bounds them together with a rope looped around each of their necks and slings it over a ceiling beam and he pulls it tight.

[00:44:13] Kyle Risi: Is he gonna hang them? He's just holding them in place at this point in time. Right, okay. 

[00:44:17] Adam Cox: At first, the captors stay quiet because they just wanted to cooperate. They thought, okay, if we let them rob us, they'll leave and we'll be okay. But that hope quickly shatters when Tex tells them they're all going to die.

[00:44:28] Kyle Risi: Oh my god. 

[00:44:29] Adam Cox: Sharon screams in panic, and outside, Linda hears this, so she knows what's up. Inside, there's a struggle, the rope slackens, and the captors, they break free, and they're scrambling in different directions trying to escape, so the Manson family just pounce on them one by one.

[00:44:44] And as the horror unfolds, Sharon begins to sob. Jay, he pleads, and says that Sharon's pregnant, but text, doesn't care. He raises his gun and he shoots Sebring in the stomach. Then he turns to the others and he says, where's the [00:45:00] money? Abigail said she had 70 dollars in her purse and Sharon's like, I don't keep cash in the house but I could go get some if you like.

[00:45:07] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:45:08] Adam Cox: That wasn't good enough. Tex knew that Manson would be furious if they returned to Spun Ranch empty handed. 

[00:45:14] Jay Sebring, still groaning on the floor, becomes the target of Tex's rage. Tex turns to him and stabs him until he's dead. Abigail and Sharon, they scream in horror. The commotion jolts Frikowski into action. Dazed but determined, he struggles to free his hands and Susan lunges at him, stabbing him in his legs. 

[00:45:34] Tex then fires the gun at him. Somehow, Frikowski broke loose and he staggers to the back door, towards freedom, but outside, Linda is there standing frozen, keepin watch. like I said, she just thinks this is another creepy crawly break in, not a massacre.

[00:45:48] Now she watches in horror as Frakowski stumbles onto the lawn, all bloody and desperate to get away. He looks right at Linda, and she just can't move. 

[00:45:57] She was supposed to stop him. [00:46:00] and supposed to kill him, but she just stands there. Brokowski managed to get past her, and then collapses in the yard, and then seconds later, Tex charges us through, jumps on him, and then starts stabbing him again.

[00:46:11] Kyle Risi: Jeez, what's all the stabbing? 

[00:46:13] Adam Cox: Linda finally finds her voice, and she's like, make it stop, people are coming. But no one's coming, and Tex doesn't stop, and he manages to stab him 51 times. 

[00:46:22] Kyle Risi: Damn, man. 51 times. 

[00:46:25] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's horrific.

[00:46:27] Meanwhile, Abigail Folger manages to break free. She sprints towards the side yard, but Patricia, she's right behind her. Patricia attacks Abigail to the ground and stabs her. 

[00:46:39] Across the yard, Linda could hear Abigail shrieks of pain and Patricia's screams of fury. Shaking, Linda turns and runs. She climbs the fence and rushes to the car and waits.

[00:46:49] Back in the yard, Tex catches up with Patricia, who's standing over Abigail, who's now dead. He points towards the guesthouse instructs to kill anyone else inside.

[00:46:58] With Abigail now dead, the killer's turned [00:47:00] back inside to Sharon. She is begging for her life. And her unborn baby's life. Yeah, she pleads with them, to take her hostage. Keep her alive just long enough that she can give birth.

[00:47:11] Kyle Risi: That's awful. Imagine being in that position. 

[00:47:13] Adam Cox: It's a poor woman. Yeah. Poor, poor woman. Susan Atkins is ruthless and doesn't care. She's an utter, utter bitch. She's witching. She is void of any empathy. And so her and Tex, they stab Sharon again and again. Straight into her pregnant belly. 

[00:47:33] Kyle Risi: That's awful. That's awful. 

[00:47:34] Adam Cox: This bit's horrible. Apparently as Sharon's laying dying, she calls out for her mum. 

[00:47:39] Kyle Risi: That's just heartbreaking. Because that's what you do when you're like in severe pain, like you retreat back into that childhood kind of mentality where you call on to your parents for help and support or, Yeah. that's what she's doing in this moment. 

[00:47:54] Adam Cox: Exactly. It's just, I don't know. They are ruthless and to Do this to a [00:48:00] pregnant woman, I think is 

[00:48:00] Kyle Risi: And to just have no sense of remorse or empathy about it. 

[00:48:05] Adam Cox: And to do this for, to start a race war that's not as if, Sharon had done anything wrong or any of these people had done anything wrong. 

[00:48:11] Kyle Risi: These people didn't matter to that.

[00:48:13] Adam Cox: They were just innocent people just enjoying their evening. 

[00:48:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:48:16] Adam Cox: To make the scene even worse, Tex, Susan and Patricia wrap a rope around Sharon's neck and strung her up by a ceiling beam, but she'd already died from her stab wounds.

[00:48:25] Kyle Risi: So it's like this the prepping the scene to send a message or to look like it's really gruesome, right? 

[00:48:32] Adam Cox: Yeah. Susan soaks a towel in Tate's blood and scrawls the word pig across the front door, . Now having killed five people, the Manson family members return to the car, where Linda is there waiting. Tex strips off all of his bloody clothes, and he furiously tells Linda to drive. He was angry that she had not participated at all in any of the murders. 

[00:48:52] Kyle Risi: Oh, she's in trouble when she gets back. 

[00:48:54] Adam Cox: Yep.

[00:48:55] When the killers returned to Spahn Ranch, Manson was there waiting. He asked if, any of them felt [00:49:00] remorse. Without hesitation, they all answered no, but Manson Wow! What a question to ask! 

[00:49:07] Again, he's just looking for their, like Loyalty. Yeah. Yeah. Manson wasn't really fully satisfied with their answer, I guess, and so he drives to Cielo Drive himself. Really? Making some adjustments to the scene. 

[00:49:20] Kyle Risi: Oh! Yeah. So this is all about a message. 

[00:49:24] Adam Cox: Yeah, so he arranges things in really odd ways. So some of the things he does, he places a towel over Jay Sebring's head. He drapes an American flag on the couch beside Sharon Tate's body. 

[00:49:35] Shit. 

[00:49:36] And then some other sort of subtle eerie changes just to make the crime scene even stranger. And once he's done, he drives back to Spahn Ranch and he goes to bed. 

[00:49:44] The next morning, Manson was still unsatisfied. Yes, the killings had made national news. The whole country was talking about these gruesome, bizarre murders. But no one was blaming the Black Panthers. 

[00:49:57] Kyle Risi: I mean, you kind of need something a bit more [00:50:00] explicit. I think you need to write on the wall, the Black Panthers did this. An American flag doesn't really say that. 

[00:50:08] Adam Cox: I guess so. I think they were trying to see if it would link to the previous crimes, like the drug dealer Gary Hinman's murder and all this other sort of stuff. But to them, they were like, why is nothing set in motion? Helter Skelter was supposed to have begun, according to the Beatles. 

[00:50:25] Kyle Risi: Do we know how the Beatles felt about like their music being so kind of like connected to Charles Manson. 

[00:50:32] Adam Cox: I think they actually stopped playing Helter Skelter after this all came out. For like years. I think they just didn't want to like connect and for the, especially for the victim's families, they just didn't want to be a part of that. 

[00:50:44] Kyle Risi: Sure. It's just crazy. It's like, imagine like making Peppa Pig and you think, wow, this is, kids gonna love this. And then some mad person adopts it as like some kind of like prophecy to an, an apocalyptic world.

[00:50:59] Like how, would you [00:51:00] be like, I spent a lot of time making Peppa Pig. For kids. And someone has just bastardised it. And turned it into this monstrosity, this evil kind of apocalyptic thing. I imagine that's how the Beatles must be feeling. It's quite a stretch with Peppa pig. 

[00:51:16] I know, but I'm just trying to exaggerate.

[00:51:17] She's a little bit annoying. 

[00:51:21] Adam Cox: But this is the Beatles of all things. What would Peppa's message be then ? Oh, she hasn't put away her toys today, so that must mean Yeah. 

[00:51:30] Kyle Risi: She's starting a race war! 

[00:51:33] Adam Cox: So because this war still hadn't begun, there's only one solution to Manson, more murder. And this time, Manson wouldn't just issue orders from the ranch, he would go himself, and he turned to Linda Kasabian and tells her, You're driving tonight, because you let the side down, and she obviously can't say no, she's petrified.

[00:51:50] Manson also selects a woman called Leslie, she's just 19 years old, and a guy called Steve, he's only 18. And they're dressed in dark clothes, armed with knives, and they set out [00:52:00] into the night. So on the night of August the 10th, 1969, Charles Manson led his followers into Los Feliz. He directs them through LA's east side, before turning into Waverley Drive, which is a familiar street to them because the family had been there before. 

[00:52:13] They'd been there for, one of the house parties that I think was connected to Phil Coffman. Um, and so, uh, Manson had long since abandoned his dreams of stardom, but he was still hell bent on I don't know, killing LA's wealthiest, residents. And this particular drive was just like Cielo Drive, it's where the rich and important people lived. 

[00:52:34] Manson hopped the fence to one of the homes and entered through the back door.

[00:52:37] There he signaled, um, his followers to Inside they Inside, they find Lino and Rosemarie LaBianca, a successful and well liked couple. 

[00:52:46] Lino owned a chain of grocery stores where Rosemarie ran a boutique, and they had no connection to Manson whatsoever. They weren't really famous, they were just quite wealthy and unlucky. Because that night, they were asleep on the couch, and when they woke to the [00:53:00] sound of intruders, they tie him up. 

[00:53:02] Manson steals Rosemary's purse , and he gets back in the car, and essentially just leaves the guys, his followers, to do the rest of the killing while he drives off to Denny's. 

[00:53:10] Kyle Risi: What's the motivation for that? So he's just come in, he's just Broke in. Stole some money. Checked out the scene. Goes, Yeah, this is perfect. This is great. 

[00:53:19] Adam Cox: I don't know. He just wants to be a part of it. We just want to make sure it's going to be the right type of murder to cause this kind of But he's not doing any of the heavy lifting himself. Not really. He's going to Denny's whilst they carry on with this murder.

[00:53:30] I mean, Denny's is good. Yeah, I don't know if it's that good. So inside, Tex places a pillowcase over Lino's head and he ties it up with a lamp cord and he wraps it around the man's neck and mouth. Then he orders Patricia and Leslie to take Rosemary into the bedroom and do the same and with the wife out of sight, Tex starts to stab Lino with a bayonet.

[00:53:49] Oh god. 

[00:53:50] From the bedroom, Rosemary screams. She tries to run to him, but then Patricia stabs her with a kitchen knife. Then, following Manson's orders, everyone [00:54:00] must participate. And so everyone will stab. 

[00:54:02] Kyle Risi: So no, no waiting at the car. 

[00:54:04] Adam Cox: Yeah, this time round. Tex and Patricia, they left Lino with a dozen stab wounds and a carving fork jammed into his stomach. And it wasn't random, it was a reference to Piggy's A Song from the White Album, again. And just to drive this message home, the killers used Lino's blood to write death to pigs on the wall.

[00:54:23] And then they carved the word war into his stomach and scrawled the word rise in blood across the walls. 

[00:54:30] Now Manson was fixated on this word rise because he would repeat it over and over, especially after one of the songs, Blackbird, another. Yeah. I think the chorus says you were only waiting for this moment to arise and Manson's twisted it into a prophecy saying it was a call for black people to rise up against their white oppressors.

[00:54:51] And in his mind, the word rise was both a Beatles reference and a way to frame black activists for the murders. 

[00:54:58] Kyle Risi: It's just crazy though, like [00:55:00] to pin these murders on some black people in order to Inside a race war? That just doesn't make sense to me. 

[00:55:07] Adam Cox: I guess they've taken so much drugs, I don't think a lot of it makes sense. No. But they're just trying to, I don't know, they're just an off sound mind. 

[00:55:13] Kyle Risi: No. 

[00:55:14] Adam Cox: Before leaving, Patricia adds one final touch. She writes Helter Skelter on the refrigerator in blood, but apparently she does spell it wrong. They even take the liberty of eating their food and showering at their house before hitchhiking a ride back to Spahn Ranch. Sure way 

[00:55:29] Kyle Risi: to leave all your DNA behind. 

[00:55:31] Adam Cox: Yeah, clearly not thinking. Whilst Manson is at Denny's, you may remember that she, he had stolen some money. Yeah. And what he does is he leaves Rosemary's wallet in the restaurant bathroom. What, on purpose? On purpose. And the plan is he wanted This just doesn't make sense again. A black woman to find it, steal the credit cards inside and then they would be able to be blamed for the LaBianca's murders. 

[00:55:55] Kyle Risi: I see. So this is another way of him pinning it on the black community. [00:56:00] But the thing is, so is Denny's frequented by black African Americans? Is that why he went to Denny's? 

[00:56:05] Adam Cox: I don't know. Or maybe this particular restaurant was, maybe it was in a certain neighborhood. I don't know the specifics. 

[00:56:12] Kyle Risi: So who ends up finding the wallet?

[00:56:14] Adam Cox: I don't think anyone did, to be honest. Oh, so it didn't work again! Yeah, this is the thing, that again, they're expecting, like, what they had done, this masterful plan, would cause this, this riot. Yeah, but when the news broke, whilst it was obviously all in the news, it didn't cause any riots in the street.

[00:56:30] People didn't connect it, and yeah, the wallet wasn't found, no one pinned it on some black person. 

[00:56:35] Geez, it must just be such chaotic time, with so many different crimes going on that they can't like, sift through them and connect certain ones together. That's probably what the case is. Yeah, and I guess, like you say, their clues aren't maybe as good as they thought they were gonna be.

[00:56:48] Kyle Risi: They wrote Helter Skelter on the damn wall! 

[00:56:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, people aren't gonna go, oh that's relating to this song, which is all about this. But it might 

[00:56:55] Kyle Risi: not be, because it's spelled incorrectly. 

[00:56:56] Adam Cox: So it's probably not connected. However, the police were [00:57:00] closing in on the Manson family, For fraud, probably. Well, yeah, a few weeks Hahaha, 

[00:57:05] Kyle Risi: he is always fraud, that's how they get him.

[00:57:07] Adam Cox: Not fraud, but it was for car thefts, essentially. So something, nothing to do with murder, but just for something else that they had obviously got into trouble for. But by pure luck, the family got off on a technicality, but that was enough to spook Manson and he becomes even more paranoid, and he was convinced that someone was talking.

[00:57:24] His scapegoat was a guy called Donald Shea, who went by the name Shorty. He was a ranch hand who hated the family's presence at the ranch. He had even urged the owner to kick them out. And two weeks after the Tate and Libianca murders, Manson and two followers lured Shorty into the desert and killed him.

[00:57:43] Kyle Risi: Oh shit, gotta get rid of him then. 

[00:57:45] Adam Cox: That didn't ease Manson's paranoia though. He orders the family to relocate to Barker Ranch, deep in Death Valley, and it was time to find, The Pit, what he called. Now Manson had preached about the Pit for months. It was a hidden sanctuary, a place where they [00:58:00] could all wait out the race war.

[00:58:01] So they're thinking this is it, this is where it's gonna happen. 

[00:58:03] Kyle Risi: I mean, to call a sanctuary The Pit. Not really sanctuary esque, is it? No, I guess 

[00:58:09] Adam Cox: Yeah. But yeah, that's where they were going to be able to rise from the pits and then take control 

[00:58:17] Kyle Risi: Okay. So it's like the, the beast arising from the abyss, like as prophesied in the Bible. 

[00:58:23] Adam Cox: Yeah. So each day the family was searching the desert, desperately trying to find this mythical place that he had promised. And every night exhausted, they gathered around a fire. Drop some acid and listen to Manson preach about their future again. 

[00:58:37] So in reality, nothing had really changed They're still high on drugs. They're doing these petty crimes to survive and now they're wandering the desert like the Jews Yeah, and this war it's just not coming 

[00:58:47] The locals, however, had figured out what was going on because there was a sudden wave of petty thefts and the strange group squatting at this ranch. It must have been since this group had come into town, the Manson family. So [00:59:00] suspicious, they reported the family to the police. And meanwhile, with no sign of the pit and tensions rising, members started peeling away, I guess they started to lose faith of what was happening.

[00:59:10] Kyle Risi: And did he know that the pit just didn't exist? Or was he hoping that he would find the pit? Or was he just leading his followers on? 

[00:59:18] Adam Cox: I think he still probably believes that he would find it. 

[00:59:21] Kyle Risi: But he doesn't know what he's looking for. No. He'll, it's a case of, I'll know when I see it.

[00:59:26] Adam Cox: I think so. Everything else has been like, almost like

[00:59:29] Kyle Risi: desert! Like, oh, there's a bit of sand here. Oh, there's a rock there. There's more sand there. And then eventually, there's a little patch of sand, he's like, this is it. Found it. 

[00:59:37] Adam Cox: Yeah, the final blow does come, however, in October 1969. So one of the Manson women, lady called Kitty, she kept asking where Bobby Bosselet was, because he was still in police custody, because he was the man, if you remember, that killed Gary Hinman, who sold them some bad drugs.

[00:59:55] Kyle Risi: Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:59:57] Adam Cox: Now the reason she cared where he was, is because she [01:00:00] was pregnant with Bobby's child. 

[01:00:02] Kyle Risi: Oh. 

[01:00:03] Adam Cox: So Susan, Atkins, she was never one to keep quiet. She proudly told her that the reason Bostolet was still in jail is because the family had tortured and killed Gary Hinman. And Susan even laughed as she described the murder.

[01:00:15] So she is an evil bitch. Oh, jeez, yeah. And to Kitty, that's enough. She flees the ranch, and she goes straight to the police, and October the 10th, authorities raid the ranch, and they storm the property, and they arrest 10 of the family members.

[01:00:30] Wow. Manson, however He wasn't there. Where was he? 

[01:00:35] By some, pure luck, he was visiting L. A. at the time. So it was a bit of a miracle, to be honest. However, a few days later, police returned to the ranch, and it seemed abandoned. But one officer, was patrolling round. He wasn't 100 percent convinced. 

[01:00:49] Because he had spotted inside a lit candle flickering on a table. Someone was still in this place. So he sweeps the house, checking every nook and cranny. Then he opens a [01:01:00] small cabinet under the sink. And there is Charles Manson. 

[01:01:05] Kyle Risi: So that's how he got busted. Because of a little candle flickering 

[01:01:07] Adam Cox: in the window.

[01:01:07] Yeah, but he's hiding under the sink. 

[01:01:10] Kyle Risi: Apparently he was quite a small guy anyway. Yeah, really small man. 

[01:01:14] Adam Cox: Well, that makes sense. Yeah, he fit under the sink, 

[01:01:16] Kyle Risi: yeah. 

[01:01:17] Adam Cox: So with Manson finally in custody, interrogations began, and that's when everything unraveled. Susan Atkins confessed to Gary Hinman's murder, then bragged to her cellmates about the Tate LaBianca killings.

[01:01:29] Linda Kasabian quickly flipped, agreeing to testify in exchange for immunity. So she was the one that, panicked on that night and didn't do anything. Yeah, yeah. And then fingerprints from the crime scenes led to Tex Watson, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel being charged with the murders.

[01:01:44] So the family was falling apart, and they were able to pin them on all these murders that had happened.

[01:01:49] Even behind bars, Manson is still a bit of a spectacle, because in March 1970, the remaining family members tried to raise money for his defense by releasing an album, and the same month, Bill Kaufman [01:02:00] finally released the music Manson had recorded back in 1968. 

[01:02:03] Kyle Risi: Oh, so now he's capitalizing on his notoriety. Yeah. God, the music industry. 

[01:02:08] Adam Cox: He called that album, Lie, the Love and Terror Cult. 

[01:02:11] Kyle Risi: I guess this is appropriate. Yeah. He's definitely capitalizing on it if he's caught with that because he's linking it blatantly to the Manson family. And Charles, he finally got his album. Eventually. And that's what everyone is searching for now, right?

[01:02:25] Adam Cox: But he's obviously about to stand trial for murder, and on July the 24th, 1970, the trial begins. 

[01:02:31] During the trial, he smuggled a sharp object into his cell and carved a small X onto his forehead. 

[01:02:37] Adam Cox: He said, outside the courthouse, I've X'd myself from the world, whatever that means.

[01:02:42] No man or lawyer is speaking for me, I speak for myself, I am not allowed to speak with words, so I have spoken with this mark, and I will be wearing it on my forehead. 

[01:02:51] Kyle Risi: He's such a weirdo, he's so weird. I do remember seeing this interview of him years ago where a journalist was interviewing him after obviously all this had [01:03:00] happened and he was like, so tell me who, who is Charles Manson?

[01:03:05] And then Charles Manson just looks at the camera for a second and then he just goes into this weird kind of act. he kind of like smiles and then he like pulls these weird faces and then he goes who is Charles Manson? And then basically he just ends up going I am nobody.

[01:03:19] I am this trash bag. I am this bottle of water I am whatever and it's just really strange. He's definitely capitalizing on that kind of strange Freaky persona. He's a perfect mascot for the compendium 

[01:03:33] Adam Cox: You know what? I think people have interviewed him afterwards, and they can never work out if he's putting on an act, if that's him.

[01:03:40] Because I think, sometimes when they've interviewed him, he seems of sound mind, and very lucid and everything else. And other times they're like, what's he even talking about? Is he, does he even know that I'm here? So he flips, and so is he putting on an act because of all this hype that he's built up about himself?

[01:03:56] Kyle Risi: I think that's probably what's happening there. He has a brand that [01:04:00] he needs to lean into and you even said it before, like when he was in Juvie, and the way that he would get out tricky situations is he would just pretend that he was insane. And I think that's something that he's probably learned quite early on that it gets the reaction that he potentially wants.

[01:04:16] So I believe that is, that's it. 

[01:04:19] Adam Cox: Yeah, he used to shout and flail his arms when he needed to. So I think you're right there.

[01:04:23] In court, and according to Rolling Stone, Manson had said that it is a conspiracy that the music is telling the youth to rise up against the establishment because the establishment is rapidly destroying things. It's not my conspiracy. It's not my music that's saying these things and so yeah, he just basically blames it on this music.

[01:04:42] Kyle Risi: Yeah, but it is weird that it was just a message just purely for him though. And he was the only one who could see it. 

[01:04:47] Adam Cox: Yeah, never mind the fact that Manson himself was the one that was telling his followers about the messages, none of them had interpreted it. Yeah, 

[01:04:53] Kyle Risi: oh really? You got that from that? Oh, I, um, yeah.

[01:04:56] Adam Cox: I thought it was about a slide. 

[01:04:57] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I didn't get that. Okay, great. That's good to know. [01:05:00] Let's go kill some people! 

[01:05:01] Adam Cox: Yeah, so he had tried to pin it on this album. And so I think even the jury was made to listen to the white album, for any hidden messages themselves. And they listened really closely.

[01:05:12] Kyle Risi: Did they play the record backwards as well? 

[01:05:14] Adam Cox: But I think what they found was like, yeah, there's no evil message here. No. This is all you, Mr. Manson. 

[01:05:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah, you're insane. 

[01:05:21] Adam Cox: On April 1971, Charles Manson, Patricia Krenwinkel, Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, and Leslie Van Houten were all sentenced to death. Really? Yeah. But, California briefly overturned the death penalty, which meant their sentences were changed to life in prison. 

[01:05:39] Kyle Risi: Okay, and then they brought the death sentence back after that? 

[01:05:42] Adam Cox: I guess so, yeah. 

[01:05:43] Kyle Risi: Crazy, so because their sentence was already handed down during that period, that was it, it was life in prison.

[01:05:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[01:05:50] Kyle Risi: Damn, I don't know if that's lucky or unfortunate, I don't know. 

[01:05:53] Adam Cox: A bit of both, and the majority of them, they were in prison, um, they were denied parole, and yeah, they were in prison until they [01:06:00] died, essentially. 

[01:06:01] Kyle Risi: Wow.

[01:06:02] Adam Cox: But even with most of the members locked away, the Manson family still caused quite a bit of pain, because in 1975, one of his followers wasn't, she wasn't involved in the murders, but she attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford. I heard about this. And she said she did it to impress Manson.

[01:06:18] Wow, so they're still vying for his affections and it's all over now, essentially. So she tried to assassinate President Ford. And I am assuming she wasn't successful. 

[01:06:28] She got arrested for it. So, Manson never got the record deal that he really wanted, but he got his name in history, not as a musician, not as a prophet, but as a man who turned music into murder. And so, Yeah, that is kind of Charles Manson all really wrapped up. 

[01:06:45] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's his legacy, right? He's turned music Into something insane.

[01:06:49] Adam Cox: Yeah, so I've got one last little segment as it's pure the reason why I wanted to cover this story now And that is the documentary that's on Netflix. 

[01:06:57] Kyle Risi: Oh my god, you're related to Charles Manson. [01:07:00] I am not. That's the segment 

[01:07:01] Adam Cox: What's interesting is a lot of this information all comes from a book called Hell to Skelter and it was written by the lead prosecutor on the case called Vincent Bugliosi 

[01:07:12] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm Great name.

[01:07:13] Adam Cox: He's seen as the authoritative voice on the case, and that's why the information we've just gone through is the definitive account of Manson and the motivation behind his murders. 

[01:07:23] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm. 

[01:07:24] Adam Cox: But, journalist Tom O'Neill, who originally set out to write a one off article on Manson, spent 20 years investigating this case after a single comment Bugliosi had said to him during an interview.

[01:07:39] Kyle Risi: What was that?

[01:07:40] Adam Cox: Tom O'Neill had asked him, can you give me something new? Because this case had been like covered hundreds of times already. And said like, can you give me something that you haven't said to anyone else? Something that's not widely reported just to put a unique spin on this. Yeah. 

[01:07:54] And so Bugliosi paused the interview and he turned off the recorder and told him about a tape allegedly found [01:08:00] at Sharon Tate's house after the murders.

[01:08:02] According to Bugliosi, the tape was recorded by Sharon's husband, director Roman Polanski, and it reportedly showed Sharon having sex with two other men against her will. You mean being raped? Yeah. Okay. I was trying to not use that word. Right. Okay. 

[01:08:19] Bugliosi then admitted that he told the police it wasn't important and to put it back. Now for Tom O'Neill, he's that raises some red flags because first, if that is true, then it could have made Polanski a suspect because, statistically A woman's male partner is sometimes The murderer. Yes. But he was never questioned. Secondly, why did he tell police to ignore the tape and to dismiss it as unimportant?

[01:08:46] And third, even though Bugliosi knew about this tape, he wasn't assigned to the case until months later. So he wasn't there, or couldn't have been there, to tell the police to put it back.

[01:08:57] Kyle Risi: So what are you saying here, Adam? 

[01:08:58] Adam Cox: Well, [01:09:00] This is all O'Neill's word against Bugliosi, because Bugliosi is no longer alive. So we may never know the truth, but for O'Neill, it changed everything. Because he began to suspect that there was more to this case than had been presented to the public. Because if Bugliosi could lie about this, then what else could he lie about in this investigation?

[01:09:21] And so O'Neill started to dig, and as he spoke to more people, The more and more untrustworthy Bugliosi seemed. 

[01:09:29] Kyle Risi: Interesting. 

[01:09:30] Adam Cox: For example, Bugliosi once accused his own milkman of being the real father of his child. He then used his position with the DA's office to have the milkman followed and investigated without a warrant.

[01:09:41] The reason that's important is he's doing things off the record and obviously doing things he shouldn't be doing. 

[01:09:47] It's also said that he invited someone to the trial, to act as a victim's family member. Why would he do that? Well, this person wasn't actually related to the victim at all, but he was helping Bugliosi [01:10:00] write the book Helter Skelter. 

[01:10:02] Kyle Risi: Okay. 

[01:10:03] Adam Cox: So it's almost like he already had something in mind that He wanted to make a big deal of this 

[01:10:08] story.

[01:10:09] Mm hmm. 

[01:10:10] So for the lead prosecutor of one of history's most famous murder cases, these actions raise serious questions about why is he doing this? What is he trying to craft a story to fit his own agenda? And this doesn't change any of the horrific events that have happened, but it does make you wonder, did he overlook key evidence and shape the narrative to secure a conviction?

[01:10:29] And was it really about a song by the Beatles, after all, or was that a bit of a cover up in terms of the motives to why Manson did this? 

[01:10:37] Now, none of these theories are proven, but they cast doubt on what happened. 

[01:10:41] Now, you might remember, Manson was in and out of prison a lot as a young adult. And one of the biggest mysteries is how Manson kept avoiding serious prison time before the murders.

[01:10:51] Because between 1967 and 1969, he was arrested multiple times, for, doing things with underage girls, stolen cars, [01:11:00] drugs, and any one of those things should have put him back in prison. 

[01:11:03] But apparently there was a federal parole officer that was overseeing Manson and he was really lenient with him and almost gave him permission to move to Mexico where he would have zero supervision. And so is there something going on with , the whole, police system to try and keep him out of prison? 

[01:11:23] Kyle Risi: But for what purpose though? , I know around about this time anyway, there was a lot of unsettlement between the LA police and, of course, the black community. Do you think that they were trying to poke the fire so they kept him out of prison so he could go off to try and ignite this race war? Is that what you're saying? 

[01:11:45] Adam Cox: Possibly. I think they had a very specific interest in him. And whether it was that, or whether it was, the other thing that was happening around this time. So, when he got released on parole, and he moved away, I think it was to California. It was the same time [01:12:00] that a certain project was being done in America. 

[01:12:03] Project MKUltra. 

[01:12:05] Kyle Risi: Oh, I've heard of this, but I don't know what it is. What is that? 

[01:12:08] Adam Cox: So it's supposed to be the secret operation that the CIA was involved with, where they spent years testing LSD and mind control techniques. In order to influence people, they're trying to use it as mind control, could people do that under LSD? 

[01:12:22] Kyle Risi: Hmm, interesting, a little bit of conspiracy theory going on there. 

[01:12:25] Adam Cox: Yeah, and after all, Manson could seduce followers in less than a day to join him. But it wasn't because of the LSD, right?

[01:12:33] Kyle Risi: Well, was he Because he is charismatic. 

[01:12:35] Adam Cox: Yes, or was it because he was actually a part of MKUltra? Because the experiments that were taking place were exactly where he was at that moment in time. 

[01:12:44] Kyle Risi: Oh, I don't know if I believe that. Because he is insane. 

[01:12:48] Adam Cox: Yeah, but then, is that a reason why he was kept out of prison because it's almost like they were doing this study. And I don't think the police would ever, or the CIA would ever think that he would go on to murder, but maybe they were [01:13:00] watching him recruit people if he was potentially part of this project. 

[01:13:04] Kyle Risi: Okay, interesting.

[01:13:06] Adam Cox: Some argue that the amounts of murders became the perfect excuse to discredit the hippie movement. So a commune of drugged out, counter culture youths committing brutal murders, it kind of fed into this narrative that hippies were dangerous, and then they could use that to then basically say, Oh yeah, we're going to get rid of the hippie movement because of this.

[01:13:24] Kyle Risi: I can see how that could work. 

[01:13:26] Adam Cox: But yeah, even O'Neill himself says there's not 100 percent proof, but this 20 year investigation basically has come up with all these different contradictions about the case and this upcoming documentary, I think it'll be really interesting to hear more about these stories and work out what else is lurking behind this.

[01:13:42] So yeah, that is the story of Charles Manson and the Manson Family Serial Killers. 

[01:13:47] Kyle Risi: So that's what this documentary is going to be focusing on then, is it? 

[01:13:50] Adam Cox: Yeah because if you spent 20 years, think There's been so many sort of red herrings and everything and I don't think any of the theories that's going to come up is going to be proven. 

[01:13:59] But I think it's just [01:14:00] saying that there's more to it. Is there a cover up by the CIA? Sure. Was the prosecutor actually the right person to be the authoritative voice on this?

[01:14:09] Did he have, intentions that might not be? A line or yeah, at the end of the day, Manson was still a murderer. He still did all these things. It's just was it a song by the Beatles that influenced all this or is that just used as a bit of a cover up in order to maybe hide actually what maybe he was manipulated to doing some of these things.

[01:14:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah. If it comes out that it had nothing to do with the music and they use that as a. As a cover up, the Beatles will be happy. 

[01:14:35] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[01:14:36] Kyle Risi: They'll be like, God damn it, Vindication! 

[01:14:38] that was a ride, Adam. I didn't realise that there was so much to it, really. I didn't realise that he had actually essentially formed an entire cult with like dozens and dozens of people.

[01:14:48] Adam Cox: Yeah, a cult, um, the way he influenced people, the way he was connected to these notable musicians, the fact that he had music, and the fact that the Beatles were involved. I 

[01:14:56] Kyle Risi: know, and he was trying to make it as a musician, that's [01:15:00] crazy. 

[01:15:00] Adam Cox: Yeah, now the fact he's part of MKUltra maybe, who knows, it's quite fascinating.

[01:15:04] Kyle Risi: I did read that while he was in prison, He got married, he almost got married to someone that was corresponding with him and was writing and should come and visit him. They would have congratulal visits where they get to bang. Yeah, and um, apparently he called off the wedding at some point because it transpired that the only reason why she was getting involved with him is because she wanted to claim rights over his body so that when he died she could display it.

[01:15:30] Eww. Yeah. Where? I don't know, in a, I don't know, she probably put it in a like glass case or something. But, that all came out when they did an investigation into his life and they were speaking to people that he was involved in. That's when it transpired that she was only interested in his body.

[01:15:46] Interesting. In the wrong way, not like, I only want you for your body. Yeah. She's like, I only want you for your dead body. 

[01:15:51] Adam Cox: Well, he did die in 2017. 

[01:15:53] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I mean, that was seven years ago. 

[01:15:55] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's long enough. Mmm. 

[01:15:58] Kyle Risi: I don't think she got the body though, obviously. [01:16:00] He scored off the wedding.

[01:16:01] Yeah, crazy story. 

[01:16:03] Adam Cox: Yeah, apparently Paul McCartney did actually, play Helter Skelter Back in 2004, I guess maybe felt like it had been long enough and he could reclaim that song. 

[01:16:12] Kyle Risi: Right, it's time. Yeah, 

[01:16:13] Adam Cox: but up until that point he hadn't. Really? 

[01:16:16] Kyle Risi: Wow. 

[01:16:17] Adam Cox: Yeah, so shall we run the outro?

[01:16:18] Let's do it. 

[01:16:19] And that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium, an assembly of fascinating things. We hope you enjoyed the ride as much as we did. 

[01:16:27] Kyle Risi: And if today's episode sparked your curiosity, then do us a favor and follow us on your favorite podcasting app. It truly makes a world of difference and helps us reach more people.

[01:16:36] Adam Cox: And for our dedicated freaks out there, don't forget next week's episode is already waiting for you on our Patreon, completely free to access. 

[01:16:43] Kyle Risi: And if you want even more, then you can join our certified freaks tier to unlock our entire archive and delve into our exclusive content and get a sneak peek as to what's coming up next.

[01:16:53] Adam Cox: We drop new episodes every Tuesday, and until then, a song is just a song to be enjoyed for what it was [01:17:00] intended. That is, until someone decides it's a prophecy. 

[01:17:04] Kyle Risi: Very good. See you next week. 

[01:17:05] Adam Cox: See ya.