Milli Vanilli: The Real Story Behind Greatest Lip-Sync Scandal in Music History

In this episode of The Compendium, we dive into the story of Milli Vanilli, the duo that captivated the world with their catchy hits like “Girl I’m Gonna Miss You” and “Girl You Know It's True". Their stunning looks captivated a generation of teenagers, only for it all to come crashing down in one of music’s biggest scandals. Today we tell you what happened to Milli Vanilli, the truth behind their Grammy award scandal, and how Fab Morvan and Rob Pilatus went from rising stars to infamous symbols of industry deception. We explore the darker side of the music world involving Frank Farian and Clive Davis, Because Milli Vanilli lip-syncing was just the beginning. 

We give you the Compendium, but if you want more, then check out these great resources:

1. Milli Vanilli – Wikipedia
2. Behind the Music: Milli Vanilli – VH1 Documentary Episode
3. Frank Farian press Conference - Youtube
4. Milli Vanilli Press Conference - Youtube
5. From Stars to Scapegoats: The Milli Vanilli Scandal – Rolling Stone Feature

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Chapters

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• 1:11 Welcome to The Compendium
• 1:45 Topic of the week
• 1:03:26 Outro

Transcript

[00:00:01] Kyle Risi: So they were left with very little money. The little money that they did make was lost through these ridiculous class action lawsuits from people claiming to have suffered from the fallout. 

[00:00:12] Adam Cox: Who suffered from this? 

[00:00:13] Kyle Risi: So there were these ads on TV saying, Did you receive a gift of a Milli Vanilli cassette, CD or record, or attend any of their concerts? You could be entitled to compensation. Call this number now. 

[00:00:25] Adam Cox: No way. 

[00:00:26] Kyle Risi: And people came forward and they testified. They were saying things like, My daughter has suffered immensely throughout this entire ordeal and she's unlikely to ever recover. 

[00:00:34] We need a new family Volvo to get us through this.

[00:00:38] Adam Cox: Our Our marriage broke down and my wife ran up with the milkman. 

[00:00:41] Kyle Risi: My daughter was in a relationship with a Milli Vanilli poster for four years. [00:01:00]

[00:01:13] Welcome to The Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. A weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. the darker corners of true crime, the annuls of your old unread history books, and the who's who of extraordinary people.

[00:01:30] I'm your ringmaster for this episode, Kyle Recy. 

[00:01:32] And I'm your gift shop seller, Adam Cox. 

[00:01:36] I like 

[00:01:36] Adam Cox: that. 

[00:01:37] Kyle Risi: You're getting more respectable jobs as the days go on.

[00:01:39] Adam Cox: I'm still doing like the staff at the moment. I'm not, not part of the main show. 

[00:01:42] Kyle Risi: Yeah. when is that going to happen?

[00:01:43] Adam Cox: I don't know. I'm not doing a good job juggling knives. 

[00:01:46] Kyle Risi: Today's compendium, Adam, we are diving into an assembly of pop dreams, big schemes and voices that didn't quite sync up. 

[00:01:55] Adam Cox: Okay. Tell me more. 

[00:01:57] Kyle Risi: Imagine skyrocketing to the [00:02:00] pinnacle of fame. Imagine you're even better looking than you already are. Really?

[00:02:06] Imagine women are screaming your name wherever you go. You're at the height of your celebrity career. You are one half of the hottest pop act in the world in this moment. Your records sell by the millions. You sell out stadiums. You collect Grammys. You're living the lifestyle that millions only dream about.

[00:02:27] But then you ask yourself, what have I done to deserve this fame and this reverence? People around you notice that questioning look in your eyes, mistaking it momentarily for a lapse in confidence. They reassure you that what you're feeling is just a sense of imposter syndrome. It's natural. It'll pass. 

[00:02:48] They tell you that you need to enjoy the moment and revel, Adam, in your success. 

[00:02:54] But you know the truth. You know this isn't just imposter [00:03:00] syndrome, you know that you are an imposter. Because those smash hits that millions of your fans love, they aren't even your voice. Every note, every lyric, every high, every low belongs to somebody else.

[00:03:15] You're just the face, the one lip syncing under the lights, mouthing along to those songs you didn't even sing.

[00:03:22] And you know what you're doing is wrong, but you are trapped in a contract that has rendered you a slave to the masterminds behind your global success. And every day you live in fear. That today will be the day that your secret is exposed. 

[00:03:38] Adam, today I'm going to tell you about the dramatic rise and the shocking fall of one of the 80s most iconic pop duos, Milli Vanilli.

[00:03:48] Oh, 

[00:03:49] Adam Cox: Milli Vanilli. Yeah, I do know about these two. 

[00:03:51] Kyle Risi: Did you really feel like you're a pop star? 

[00:03:53] Adam Cox: I did. I did, to be fair. And then you brought me crashing down to the ground. 

[00:03:57] Kyle Risi: I've seen you lip sync in the wardrobe. [00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Adam Cox: In the wardrobe?

[00:04:02] Kyle Risi: With your shampoo bottle. What award is that by the way?

[00:04:05] Adam Cox: a Nobel Peace Prize. For best new artist.

[00:04:11] Kyle Risi: So Adam, what do you know of these guys? 

[00:04:13] Adam Cox: Um, well I so they were about in the early, was it late 80s or early 90s? 

[00:04:17] Kyle Risi: Late 80s. 

[00:04:18] Adam Cox: Yeah. And 

[00:04:19] Kyle Risi: barely touching the 90s. It wasn't long before they fell from grace. 

[00:04:23] Adam Cox: think I know a little bit about them. They're a duo, aren't they? Hip hop, R& B kind of type music, am I right in thinking that?

[00:04:31] Kyle Risi: Uh, it's Tricky dance, pop, R& B, a bit of rap. Yeah, a lot of these different flavours all happening at once. 

[00:04:36] Adam Cox: Um, I can't really know much about them, but I vaguely, there's something in the back of my mind saying that there was a bit of controversy around them, but I can't remember exactly what. 

[00:04:46] Kyle Risi: So Adam, for a solid two years, Milli Vanilli were like the biggest act in the world. They were, as a collective, Rob and Fab, and they just seemed to appear out of nowhere. They were two very, very, attractive black men living [00:05:00] in Germany. They had these chiseled features, long braided hair, toned muscle bodies. Adam, you could literally wash your bedding off of their abs.

[00:05:08] They were just The peak of physical fitness. And they rocked the 80s style, man. They wore blazers. They wore 20 hole black leather Doc Martens. And of course, spandex high thigh biker shorts. 

[00:05:22] Adam Cox: What? 

[00:05:23] Kyle Risi: Hang on. 

[00:05:24] Adam Cox: That's a look. That feels like a clash of different looks. 

[00:05:27] Kyle Risi: That's a look. Yes. They were so tight, they basically gave away the salami.

[00:05:31] Adam Cox: Oh, is this why they were popular? 

[00:05:33] Kyle Risi: Probably, I would say, definitely in my book, for sure. They had a whole vibe going on, and in like 1989, they had three US Billboard number ones with hits like Baby Don't Forget My Number, Blame It On The Rain, and Girl I'm Gonna Miss You. Ah, that's the one 

[00:05:49] Adam Cox: I remember the most, I think.

[00:05:50] Kyle Risi: Yes, if you remember, of course, for our listeners who don't, Girl I'm Gonna Miss You was the song that the Menendez brothers played at their parents funeral in the Ryan Murphy Netflix [00:06:00] series Monsters. 

[00:06:01] Adam Cox: And in real life, I think. 

[00:06:02] Kyle Risi: It's also probably one of the most inappropriate songs that you could play at your parents funeral after, you know, murdering them. 

[00:06:09] Adam Cox: I mean, I guess they are gonna miss them. Um, maybe. I don't know. Miss cooked dinners. 

[00:06:15] Kyle Risi: But the way he even said it in the show, he was like, I'm not a poet. But I'm gonna hand that over to two poets who can like sing it from the heart or something and then this just starts playing and it's just It's 

[00:06:27] Adam Cox: Disney mime as well. I think whilst it's been 

[00:06:30] Kyle Risi: really diddy. Oh, I know. Oh, maybe that's a nod to what's actually happened 

[00:06:34] Adam Cox: Yeah, I don't know 

[00:06:35] Kyle Risi: They also had a hit with Girl You Know It's True, which would ultimately be the song that set up the chain of events leading to their ultimate demise because during a gig in front of thousands of screaming fans, they were exposed as frauds.

[00:06:48] And so this moment marked the beginning of the end of Milli Vanilli. This moment became like the biggest story of the year 1990. But the truth is, Adam, Milli Vanilli were just pawns in [00:07:00] a bigger machine. They were contractual slaves to the industry. And while they knew they didn't want to defraud their fans in the way that they were being forced to do, they were trapped and there was just no way out.

[00:07:11] And this really impacted them psychologically long before their secret was even exposed. So I feel really awful for them. Like they had their No choice. So I'm really excited about today's story because it's something that I just didn't really know about and I always love those stories where you think it's one thing, because the reality is yes, they are. Were caught lip syncing one of their songs, But it wasn't the actual reason that caused their downfall 

[00:07:34] Adam Cox: doesn't say lip syncing so many people have lips.

[00:07:37] Kyle Risi: I know it's like so commonplace. Remember, what was it? Ashley Simpson she was notoriously found for lip syncing one of her songs 

[00:07:44] Adam Cox: But the thing is with that one was she was expecting to sing another song and then I think of another backing track played. Oh, right. And then she's just like, uh, I wasn't expecting to sing that. And she does this weird little jig on stage and like, does a little dance and then just kind of looks around [00:08:00] and then just walks off. 

[00:08:01] Kyle Risi: But the thing is, though, the idea of her lip syncing to other songs, that's. Fine. If you're a high energetic artist, of course, it's difficult to sing live and also dance and put on a show. But the problem with Milli Vanilli was that it's not like they were lip syncing to one of their own tracks that they recorded in the studio. It wasn't even them singing. 

[00:08:19] Adam Cox: Wow. Who was it? 

[00:08:21] Kyle Risi: Well, I mean, it was certainly not Millie, it was certainly not Vanilli. 

[00:08:24] Adam Cox: Let's get into it. 

[00:08:25] Kyle Risi: So ordinarily, this is where we would do all the latest things, but as we know, it's now it's own mini side, which we'll be dropping every Thursday. If of course you have tuned in to this episode and you're wondering where the hell your, all the latest things is that if you pop over to our Patreon completely free of charge, you can gain access to the dedicated all the latest things minnesota that we've released this week 

[00:08:47] Adam Cox: so before we get into the main story you mentioned their names were Rob and Fab. So that's, is Milli and Vanilli their actual like surnames? 

[00:08:57] Kyle Risi: No, so we actually don't know where the [00:09:00] name Milli Vanilli came from. There are some theories about what the name means, but it's likely that it's just kind of a nonsense name that just sounded cool. One of the theories is that the name comes from a Turkish advertising slogan meaning positive energy. 

[00:09:11] But there is a theory that producers wanted to evoke a similar sound and vibe of a big British band at the time, Skriddy Palliddy. What's up with these names? I know. I think they're good.

[00:09:23] I guess I wanted to evoke that same kind of vibe or feeling. But there is also another theory that Milli Vanilli was the nickname that their producer, Frank Farian, gave to his girlfriend.

[00:09:33] So the truth is probably like a combination of one of those different theories. But ultimately, all we know is that it's just like a nonsense name that just sounds a bit cool. 

[00:09:42] Adam Cox: You're gonna remember that name, right? 

[00:09:44] Kyle Risi: I think so. Hmm. I can imagine going to Rome to an ice cream parlor there and going, I'll have two scoops of Milli Vanilli, please. It just sounds right. Yeah, it does. 

[00:09:54] But overall, Milli Vanilli, they were the hottest acts in the world. At their peak, they sold 14 million albums, which stayed at number [00:10:00] one on the Billboard charts for seven weeks.

[00:10:03] And they became one of the most successful albums of that year. Individually, they sold 33 million singles, they won three American Music Awards and they even won a Grammy for Best New Artist of 1990. So these boys were quite literally on top of the world of music,

[00:10:20] but Let's introduce you to the boys, shall we?

[00:10:23] So Rob and Fab, they were two brothers. Not brothers with an R, but like brothers with an A. 

[00:10:29] Adam Cox: All right, brothers from other mothers. 

[00:10:31] Kyle Risi: Brothers from other mothers, essentially. They were like extremely exotic and incredible dancers and performers. And their background was more kind of in dancing than singing anyway.

[00:10:41] And some argue that actually, if it wasn't for the dancing they probably wouldn't have been the idols that they had eventually become. That was the thing that most people remember the most about them because they were just so uber cool. Yes, singing is important, but people came for the performance.

[00:10:56] Adam Cox: Right. Okay. 

[00:10:57] Kyle Risi: So it was their ability to entertain a crowd [00:11:00] with their breakdancing and jumping around the stage with the super high energy that made people just love them. And the story goes that in 1988, there was this dance seminar held at a club in Munich.

[00:11:11] Now, by the way, the idea of a dance seminar is really difficult for my mind to comprehend. Is that not 

[00:11:16] Adam Cox: just a show? 

[00:11:17] Kyle Risi: Is it? 

[00:11:18] Adam Cox: I don't know, like you're all sitting down, watching someone doing a dance. Ha! Yeah, I was like So a show. 

[00:11:24] Kyle Risi: Yeah, like, is there a dancer going on there or is it just like rows and rows of people? sitting in an auditorium analyzing breakdancing moves. I guess so. Frame by frame. 

[00:11:33] Adam Cox: Must be, yeah. 

[00:11:34] Kyle Risi: But regardless, this is where young Robert Pallatus meets Fabrice Morvan. Now they both share the same dream of pop stardom, a life on the stage in front of the spotlight. Robert was born June the 8th 1965 in Munich.

[00:11:48] Now he was initially an orphan until he was four years old when he was finally adopted by a family and growing up he was bullied mercilessly, likely because of his ethnicity . Like, the local kids [00:12:00] called him Kunta Kinte, which references a Gambian enslaved character from the novel Roots. So, like, kids are just the worst.

[00:12:08] But Rob found solace in music, which became his refuge away from the other kids taunts, something that he ended up pursuing as a teenager. And Adam, he's strikingly good looking. Like, I mean, Unbelievable.

[00:12:21] Adam Cox: Alright. Wood smash! You sound like some horny grandma.

[00:12:25] Kyle Risi: He's just got this beautiful, really wide face. He's got these big, beautiful blue eyes. He's got these gorgeous, long kind of braids. He's just, he's just stunning. 

[00:12:36] Adam Cox: I see what you mean. He's quite, kind of masculine, but also feminine. He's just gorgeous, isn't he? He's so beautiful. Look 

[00:12:43] Kyle Risi: at those eyes. 

[00:12:44] Adam Cox: Yeah. You 

[00:12:44] Kyle Risi: get lost in them. 

[00:12:45] Adam Cox: I would say more feminine than I would have thought. Do you reckon? 

[00:12:48] Kyle Risi: I mean, he's got quite a big face. So the big face adds to the masculinity in my opinion.

[00:12:52] I think there's just something about, 

[00:12:54] Adam Cox: although, I've just got another picture that's come up on Google search. Best and worst band photos ever. And there's [00:13:00] four men, in caveman outfits. Oh, but it's not Rob Pilatus. It's not Rob Pilatus. Well, I mean, you've 

[00:13:05] Kyle Risi: just segwayed us away, 

[00:13:06] Adam Cox: right? I'm just going to bookmark that for later. 

[00:13:09] Kyle Risi: So, of course, there's no surprise he quickly found work as a model and made money doing a bit of breakdancing on the side after leaving home.

[00:13:16] And this eventually leads to a gig as a backup singer for a German group called Wind, who actually represented Germany in the 1987 Eurovision Song Contest. Now, this is new to me, I've never heard of this before, but Wind was a Schlager group? Schlager. Schlager group. So basically it's a style of European pop that ultimately embodies everything cheesy about Germany eurovision songs. This is the genre that gave birth to the blueprint of a Eurovision anthem. 

[00:13:45] So this style of music is kind of looked down upon in Germany and has earned itself as having this reputation as being Germany's most embarrassing music genre. One writer describes Schlager music as the aureal equivalent of nuclear War combining [00:14:00] predictable lyrics and extreme rhythmic density.

[00:14:02] Basically, imagine a song that rhymes every other word. It's that over the top. And it's that Eurovision. 

[00:14:09] Adam Cox: I feel like describing it as nuclear war doesn't sound right, 

[00:14:14] Kyle Risi: it's just really over the top. And it's just not the best lyrical stuff, especially when it's translated into English, basically. Imagine, just imagine a classic Eurovision song. That's it. That's schlager music. 

[00:14:27] Adam Cox: Right. So this is kind of like the worst kind of music, like nuclear war is like the worst kind of war. Got you. 

[00:14:31] Kyle Risi: Yes. Stupid. So at the 1987 Eurovision Song Contest, you can see Rob sporting this magnificent long mullet and like a yellow bandana. And he's got this very, baggy kind of button up bowling shirt on with very, very tight, like giving away the salami, tight, yellow, three quarter length leggings. Adam, it's a sight to behold. 

[00:14:55] Adam Cox: Now I'm starting to realize why you wanted to do this episode, but carry on. 

[00:14:59] Kyle Risi: Because of the giving away the [00:15:00] salami. A lot of salami coming off. And Wynne's Schlager song, that translates to let the sun be in your heart. Scores them second place at Eurovision and this gives Rob his first taste of pop stardom and now he's like, I need to make it big. 

[00:15:14] So, that's Rob. Now let's meet Fabrice better known as Fab. So he was born on May the 14th of 1966 on the Caribbean island of Guadalupe, his mother was German and his dad was an American soldier and he ends up getting raised in Paris. So he comes from like a real family international background. And just like Rob, he has a serious love for music, especially legends like Bob Marley, Jackson 5, The Beatles, Queen.

[00:15:43] And so when he turns 18, he leaves Paris and he makes a beeline for Germany because that's where the 80s club scene was really popping off at the time.

[00:15:51] Fab just wanted to be around kind of these circles and make music that moved people in the same way that these groups did as [00:16:00] well. So around this time both of them were working as backup dancers, models and whatever other gigs they could find in the industry.

[00:16:07] And it's basically at this dance seminar in 1988 where they finally meet and they just instantly click. They were both young, hot black men from backgrounds where there weren't many other people that looked like them. So they recognized something in each other that others just seem to miss. And so there was just this instant connection and understanding between them. 

[00:16:27] And together, they end up forming a group called Empire Bazaar. Before Milli Vanilli, there was Empire Bazaar. Two both excellent names, in my opinion.

[00:16:40] Adam Cox: Really? Empire Bazaar? 

[00:16:41] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's like Empire of the Sun. 

[00:16:43] Adam Cox: Yeah, I don't know. If they came up with it themselves, I understand why they changed to Milli Vanilli. 

[00:16:47] Kyle Risi: No they weren't even Milli Vanilli at this point. They just had a separate band called Empire Bazaar. In fact, there was a third member called Charlene.

[00:16:56] Adam Cox: But we don't talk about her. 

[00:16:57] Kyle Risi: Quite literally. And together [00:17:00] they record a dance pop single called Dancers. Rob was the lead vocalist and bass guitarist. And they were legitimate musicians selling records in the club scene. But there is a cruel twist of irony here because looking back it really foreshadows what's about to happen.

[00:17:16] Because they do this little TV show. It's kind of the equivalent of, the German version of Top of the Pops or American Bandstand. And the host is getting them to kind of introduce themselves. And she's asking about their inspiration or their role models their music is based on.

[00:17:31] And Rob, who's Again, I can't stop saying it. He's stunningly beautiful just says in German We don't really have any role models. We don't draw any inspiration from other groups It's just ourselves. This is us 

[00:17:43] Adam Cox: So they are their own idols. 

[00:17:45] Kyle Risi: They're their own idols. When they then go and perform their little gig, it's very 80s. Imagine Raspberry Beret mixed with Boy George from Culture Club. Okay. They've got the big crazy outfits, they've got the little hats on, they've got their kind of long hair, it's just so [00:18:00] classically 80s. 

[00:18:00] Adam Cox: Have you heard this track? 

[00:18:02] Kyle Risi: Yeah, yeah. It's pretty good. I mean, it's not bad at the time that that played it was very different. When you look at it now, it's so cliche, right? Okay, but I can imagine at the time when that was out. They were like so edgy Got you. 

[00:18:14] And so this was just a small gig for them They weren't making any money. They were just making enough to get by 

[00:18:19] And so at this point they don't even know that their lives are about to change Because we're about to meet the villain of our story. 

[00:18:29] A big time German producer known as Frank Farian. The most accurate way to describe Frank is that he literally looks like if Bill Gates and Donald Trump had a baby. 

[00:18:43] Adam Cox: ha ha ha ha ha. Um, I definitely see Bill Gates, especially when these two women are kissing him. Um, Bill Gates. And a bit of Trump, yeah. It's the kind of slightly wild hair. It's crazy. Told ya. Very accurate. 

[00:18:55] Kyle Risi: Thank you, thank you. But also he's very German, so he's got this very thick German [00:19:00] accent.

[00:19:00] So one day Frank hears about a rap pop song called Girl. You know, it's true and he likes it, but he also knows that he can really improve upon the lyrics and kind of the arrangements of the song.

[00:19:12] So he gathers a bunch of session artists and he rerecord a song with a lot more energy and a bit more soul. And after a few weeks of tinkering, he's ready to start putting some faces together to present the song to the world. 

[00:19:25] And while obviously the session artists were good, they were all uggos, essentially. Uggos. It's a good word. Harsh. Harsh but true. 

[00:19:34] Okay. And the thing is though, even then, this was really common practice, especially in Europe. Like producers would record with session artists and then they would hire some really hot models or dancers to record It's kind of like similar to how Phoebe Buffay from Friends, she gets a deal to record Smelly Cat, but they dub the vocals from a session after scene over it.

[00:19:54] Do you remember that episode? 

[00:19:55] Adam Cox: Yeah, and she's like, oh, I'm really good. No one tells her, that's not you [00:20:00] actually singing. 

[00:20:00] Kyle Risi: That's exactly what happened. And famously, that's what was happening with Milli Vanilli for years. They didn't know it wasn't their voice. 

[00:20:07] Adam Cox: No. 

[00:20:09] Kyle Risi:  They're like, wow, we are really good guys.

[00:20:12] Adam Cox: And deluded. But you say that, I think that was quite popular in the 90s, like you just said there, where there would be an artist and then there'd be a face of the band. Because wasn't like, Boney M also one of, happened to them? 

[00:20:24] Kyle Risi: Hold that thought. Because, of course, you're right. This was something that was really common in the, in the 90s.

[00:20:30] This was an economical strategy for producers like Frank who recognised that the money was all in the production. So he just ended up scaling this up. He would produce a song, he would pay peanuts to the session artists and the models, and then when the song was a success, all the profits would go to him.

[00:20:45] Because he's pretty much done all the work, right? And Frank knew this would work because this wasn't the first time that he had rinsed and repeated this process. 

[00:20:53] Because back in the 70s, he put together a little disco act with huge hits like Mary's Boy Child, [00:21:00] September, Rasputin and Daddy Cool.

[00:21:05] So I'm assuming you know all those songs, you know who I'm talking about? 

[00:21:08] Adam Cox: Yeah, of course. 

[00:21:09] Kyle Risi: So when you consider the song Rasputin, there's famous lyrics where he goes, There lived a certain man in Russia long ago. That's Frank Varian. 

[00:21:18] Adam Cox: That's him. That's his voice. So he starred in the song, he wrote the song. 

[00:21:22] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And. Boney M's first record was a cover of a song called Al Capone which Frank decided to retitle to Baby Do You Wanna Bump. How one goes from Al Capone to Baby Do You Wanna Bump, I have no idea. I would understand if it was Baby Do You Wanna Bump Me Off, because then that's quite gangster related, right?

[00:21:41] But from Al Capone to Baby Do You Wanna Bump. But anyway, here's the kicker, Boney M also didn't sing any of their records, just like Milli Vanilli, they were just the models and the front men, lip syncing to backing tracks that were hugely popular in Europe. 

[00:21:56] Adam Cox: Yeah, I had no idea that was actually his voice. Frank's voice. 

[00:21:59] Kyle Risi: A [00:22:00] lot of American listeners probably have never heard of Boney M because they never ever took off in the States at all. Did they not? No. Oh. M, he achieved huge success, like selling 120 million records. The road to there was difficult because before this, he was an artist himself between 1961 and 1976, but attempts just didn't achieve the same level of success. 

[00:22:24] All in all, like, probably his biggest claim to fame during that period was that he provided the best Backup vocals for Meatloaf. But other than that, that was it. When he did that gig, he hoped that maybe this would get him the recognition that he wanted to kind of catapult him to success. But backing singers were just constantly being sidelined by producers who were hoarding all the revenue for themselves, right? Being a backup singer wasn't a stepping stone to kind of stardom. 

[00:22:51] So this is where he decides that he just needs to put his ego aside and he goes into production. And like his mentality will always be, do you know what, that's just show [00:23:00] business. 

[00:23:00] Adam Cox: Interesting that he tried out first to, be a singer, but maybe didn't have the image and everything else. So yeah, he decided to be behind the scenes and pulling the strings. 

[00:23:09] Kyle Risi: I guess that was his only option. I mean, he's not the most attractive. 

[00:23:12] Adam Cox: I mean, you describe him as Bill Gates and Trump's love child. 

[00:23:16] Kyle Risi: That's right. Yeah, that's, that's never going to be a recipe that's gonna make your panties drop, is it?

[00:23:21] Adam Cox: No, no, it's 

[00:23:22] Kyle Risi: not. It's not a panty dropper. 

[00:23:24] So this brings us to 1988. So Boney M were going through this period of transition and eventual decline. And Frank was trying to find two young sexy guys to front his new song, like girl, you know, it's true. So Frank hears about these two guys, Rob and Fab, in the club scene. He wasn't interested in Charlene. So, like, fuck her, right? 

[00:23:43] Adam Cox: Poor Shani. What happened to her? Did she go back to 

[00:23:46] Kyle Risi: I have no idea what happened to her! 

[00:23:48] Adam Cox: She'll get her revenge, Frank. 

[00:23:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah! She was the one who exposed everything. So, Rob and this invitation to go to Frank's studio in Frankfurt. And they think, like, this is it.

[00:23:58] This guy's the real deal. He's [00:24:00] going to make us superstars. So, before their appointment, they spend all their time preparing for an audition, right? They're practicing singing, they're dancing, they're just getting ready, right? They're body popping. The body poppin yeah. 

[00:24:11] When they arrive at Frank's studio, he plays them the demo that he's recorded. Here's what Rob says about it. He says, We got a call to come to the studio girl, you know, it's true. Was the demo. He asked us our opinion and asked if we could sing it. And we said, yeah, we could sing it. And he said, Oh, beautiful. And then there was silence. We waited for Frank to invite us to sing. And eventually I asked. Do you want us to sing? And Frank was like, Oh, no, no need to sing. I believe you.

[00:24:41] And then he said, We have shows to do. So don't worry. I'm going to make you millionaires here trying these spandex. 

[00:24:48] Adam Cox: So he's, not telling them the truth. He's oh yeah, I believe you can sing, but you don't need to sing. Just put on these skimpy outfits. 

[00:24:55] Kyle Risi: That's it. Of course, Rob and Fab, they don't know anything about the music industry. To them, [00:25:00] Frank Varian, he's this big time music producer. So he must know what he's doing. And so This moment is just a whirlwind for them. They'd never done anything like this before. They didn't even know what to expect. Their biggest focus in that moment was just staying cool, so they were like, yeah, man, whatever, whatever you want us to do, we're up for it. And yeah, we're happy to get involved. 

[00:25:22] And so Frank gives them a cash advance and then they sign a contract. Obviously, they don't read it. They don't show it to a lawyer. They don't have any management. They have no idea what they're getting themselves into. And then Frank was like, all right, boys, I'll be in touch when we're ready. And off they went.

[00:25:40] So, of course, Rob and Fab, they're absolutely giddy in this moment. The first thing they decide to do is use their combined 8, 000 cash advance, which is by the way, the most money that they've ever seen in their entire life.

[00:25:51] And they decide that they're going to invest this into their image. They're thinking is that, If we're going to be superstars, then of course we need to, we need to impress, we need [00:26:00] to look the part. I mean they already look the part, but they need to look the part even more.

[00:26:03] Adam Cox: What do they get done? 

[00:26:05] Kyle Risi: So of course they buy new clothes and jewellery, but they spend most of it on their hair. 

[00:26:09] Adam Cox: I can say they do have magnificent hair. 

[00:26:11] Kyle Risi: Their hair is just incredible. They buy those gorgeous black braids that are so iconic of their image. Oh, so that's not actually their hair? No, it's braids. Oh, so like an extension. They're black guys. They're black European men. Yeah, but I still thought that was their hair. I mean, it belongs to them, they bought it. No, but I See it, I like it, I bought it, I got it. 

[00:26:32] Is that how that goes? Something like that, yeah. But I thought that was Oh, I just generally thought that was their hair. I didn't realise they had extensions. 

[00:26:38] Yeah, no, I mean, that would take years to grow. I mean, those braids went all the way down to 

[00:26:42] Adam Cox: Oh, yeah. Their backs at one point. I guess I just thought that they always had that hair. No. But fair enough, okay. 

[00:26:48] Kyle Risi: And so once they kind of like work on their look, they wait and they wait, and they don't hear anything back from Frank. And after a few weeks, they've spent all the money that Frank had given them. So embarrassingly, they have to get in touch with Frank and [00:27:00] say, Hey man, what, what's happening? And also, by the way, can we have some more money? 

[00:27:03] Adam Cox: Yeah, we spend it all on our hair.

[00:27:05] Kyle Risi: Finally, a few weeks later, they're summoned back to the studio. Frank plays them an instrumental version of Girl You Know It's True. And they were like, We love it. It's fantastic. When do we record it? And Frank replies, Oh, we've actually already recorded it with some other vocalists. So you don't actually need to sing.

[00:27:24] What we need you to do is appear in the music video. Also you're going to go on all these different TV shows and perform the record and Rob and Fab are like, what? They found out that they would be lip syncing to a backing track and they're just beside themselves 

[00:27:41] Adam Cox: I don't know, it must be like, this is such an exciting, amazing opportunity But they must have felt like so let down like, but, or either like, oh, we're clearly not good enough at singing or something like that 

[00:27:50] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 

[00:27:51] Adam Cox: and Yeah, how did they take that?

[00:27:53] I mean, they obviously went along with it. 

[00:27:55] Kyle Risi: Well, naturally, Rob and Fab were like, absolutely not. This is not what we agreed to. We're [00:28:00] artists, we will not lip sync to another artist's vocals, right? They've got integrity. And Frank said, listen, I hear you, I hear what you're saying, and I'm sorry to hear that. You are free to walk away. But before you go, You have to give back all the cash that we've given you. 

[00:28:14] Adam Cox: Like, uh, it's tied to my head. 

[00:28:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so Rob and Fab were like just stroking their braids going, Um, yeah, we're kind of spending on our hair. 

[00:28:22] Adam Cox: We'll do one song and then, then can we talk? Can we talk about doing like maybe another song on the album?

[00:28:27] Kyle Risi: Exactly, that's what they said. So Frank said then, like, how about this? How about you go ahead with the promotional work that we've paid you to do and if the song is a hit, then obviously we'll want to do an album, right? If we do, then you can sing on that. And they're like, okay, like to them, that's a pretty good deal, right?

[00:28:43] The way they saw it is that if the song is a flop, then everyone just moves on with their lives. But if the song is a hit, then they get to go ahead and make an album and become huge stars. 

[00:28:52] Adam Cox: Equally, I can understand at that moment in time, you might think that okay, that sounds okay. But the logical or rational me would go, [00:29:00] but people will know that's not our voice when we sing another song. So I guess maybe you're not thinking that far ahead. You're just like, okay, let's just go through these motions. 

[00:29:08] Kyle Risi: I think that 100 percent is a fair assessment. They're not thinking far ahead because this will become an issue when they do finally think, okay, we're going to be recording our next album. We need to sound the part. They're going to have to learn how to sing like the session artists. Yeah. 

[00:29:23] Adam Cox: And then the other thing I'm thinking, Charlene, she's like watching TV one day. TV and so they're lip syncing. She's like, that's not their voice. Yeah, 

[00:29:30] Kyle Risi: those bastards!that's exactly what happens to a degree not with Charlene But with some of the session artists that are seeing the success that is building around these boys They're like, hang on a minute.

[00:29:40] I sung that but we'll get onto that in just a second. Okay So do you know the song that I'm referring to girl? You know, it's true Should I try and sing the lyrics? 

[00:29:51] Adam Cox: Go on then, go attempt that. 

[00:29:52] Kyle Risi: So basically the lyrics aren't very complicated. Basically it's like, Girl you know it's true, Uh, Uh, [00:30:00] Uh, Uh. I love you.

[00:30:02] Adam Cox: And that's pretty much all the song. So they could have sung that. 

[00:30:04] Kyle Risi: I'm really surprised. A, the song was a hit because of course, the bar for a catchy song seems to be a lot lower back then. But also they needed a session artist to record that. I could have done that. I know. there is a rap element to it as well.

[00:30:18] Okay. But still, It's not great, but it's also not bad, but it's definitely not a huge hit that's gonna go to number one and get a fucking Grammy out of it. It gets a Grammy? They win a Grammy out of this! But it's not even them! Do you want to listen to it now while 

[00:30:33] Adam Cox: Okay. We'll come back to my reaction. 

[00:30:35] Kyle Risi: So yeah. 

[00:30:51] Adam Cox: That was, um, that was something. It was surreal. Yeah, I like the fact, uh, probably a lot of the budget for that music video went [00:31:00] on the hair for like the musicians and them. Do you think? Because there was just, all I could think of was, wow, everyone's got really great hair.

[00:31:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I mean they had a whole look going on. But also the song doesn't seem like a massive smash hit, does it? 

[00:31:12] Adam Cox: It sounds very average. 

[00:31:14] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it does. It was almost like the instrumental overpowers the actual lyrics themselves.

[00:31:19] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's almost like if you're gonna have a different singer, you'd go for a stronger singer. Fucking good, right? Yeah.

[00:31:26] Kyle Risi: But at the time, they were a phenomenon in Europe, reaching number one in almost every single country within just two weeks. And they started performing in nightclubs almost every single night. They were appearing on TV shows every day.

[00:31:39] They were getting their first taste of the celebrity lifestyle, like staying in five star hotels, taking first class flights around Europe. And of course, women are throwing themselves at them. Though Like fame probably only played a small part in that because I think, I think people would throw themselves at them even if they were homeless.

[00:31:57] They're just so hot, especially Rob. 

[00:31:59] Adam Cox: All right, [00:32:00] geez. 

[00:32:00] Kyle Risi: I can't get over it. He's so beautiful. So after finishing their endless promotional circle, they were due to head back to Frankfurt. Now the song was a hit and so they were excited to start recording the album that they had been promised. So when they get back to Frank's studio he told them, ah boys, while you were out on tour we decided to go ahead and record the album without you.

[00:32:22] Surprise. Wow. He says it's ready to go. All we need to do is learn all the words to all the songs and then be ready when we release them. By the way, if you're That's next week. So they're like, oh, weren't we gonna have our own song? So Rob and Fab, obviously they're like, what? Like, this is not what we agreed to.

[00:32:43] And they were like literally ready to walk away. But then Frank points out that the contract that they had signed was actually for a three album deal. So if they walked away now, he would be suing them and that they would never work in the industry ever again. 

[00:32:57] Adam Cox: So this is why you always check the contract.

[00:32:59] Kyle Risi: [00:33:00] Always! So they had a choice. They could walk away and give up on this version of their dream and get sued, or they could keep up the charade for a little longer and just see what happened. So naively, Rob says, okay, if we do a good job with the first album, can we sing on the next two? And Frank is like, of course you can.

[00:33:16] Oh, well, don't, don't believe what Frank says. Exactly. I think it's safe to say that this is probably a foreshadowing of what's to come, right? So around this time, girl, you know it's true, it takes off in New York City, which is really, really difficult to do. So it catches the attention of a huge music legend.

[00:33:33] A guy called Clive Davis. Now Clive Davis is the guy who's worked with the likes of Michael Jackson, Billy Joel, Chicago, Santana, even Janis Joplin. So he's one of the most prolific music producers of all time. So he calls up Frank Farian and he says, Hey, I want to release Milli Vanilli's album here in the States under my own label, but I want to make it really, really big.

[00:33:54] And I want to add some additional songs. If you're interested, I have Diane [00:34:00] Warren on board to write one of them. And by the way, Diane, she's responsible for huge hits like, uh, Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now. Oh, yeah. Rhythm of the Night. Yeah. This is the rhythm of the night, oh night, oh yeah. Oh, no. Hey, take that back.

[00:34:19] Shares, if I could turn back time. Celine Dion's Because You Love Me. So big, big hits. Great songs. Yeah. So obviously Frank is like, yes, please. Because remember for him, this is also a dream come true as well. Yeah. 

[00:34:33] Adam Cox: Cause he's a failed musician.

[00:34:35] Kyle Risi: Yes, exactly. And Boney M never made a big in the USA. So this is everything that Frank has ever wanted. Also, I don't think that there's any evidence at this moment in time that Clive Davis knows. Oh really? That's Milli Vanilli. were miming to their own songs, he obviously certainly knows later on, but at this moment in time, nothing.

[00:34:54] Adam Cox: So doesn't like no one ever asked them ever at any point in their career up until this point, like, Oh, can you [00:35:00] just, you know, give us a little, a little bit of this sample of this and they're like, Oh no, I'm on, um, voice rest. 

[00:35:07] Kyle Risi: There must have been some instances where that was happening, right? So Frank says to Milli Vanilli, boys, like, we're heading to Los Angeles, pack your bags.

[00:35:15] And this is when the first big controversy started to emerge because a guy named Charles Shaw, who was the original rapper in Go You Know It's True, basically said, Finds out that Milli Vanilli had achieved this huge success with the song that he had sung and of course he's furious.

[00:35:32] And even though he had signed an NDA, he goes to the media and he tells them like he was the one who did the rap on that record and that the boys didn't even sing a single note on that record at all. So, Charles, obviously, he's angry. Like, he'd only been paid 6, 000 for his part in that song. And he'd been trying to make it as a rapper for years, only for these two guys to achieve international stardom without actually singing any of the songs for themselves.

[00:35:57] Adam Cox: I imagine this kind of thing, just those [00:36:00] rumors that people were like, oh, is that true? Or people just didn't want to, like, believe it. Because I always remember when I found out, like, the Power Rangers weren't actually the Power Rangers. They weren't the ones actually in the suits. 

[00:36:10] Kyle Risi: Oh my god, I bet that must have been devastating.

[00:36:12] Adam Cox: And I remember I was like, no, it can't be true. No! And I didn't believe it for years. And then you look back at it and you go, oh yeah, clearly they're all different heights and different sizes. That's definitely not them. 

[00:36:21] Kyle Risi: Well, there's a couple of things happening here, right? Initially, The media probably hasn't realized that actually this is a story that could potentially sell papers. Because right now, the story gets out there. Fans don't care. They don't give a shit. Yeah. They just love them for what it is that they can see, right? The whole package. Yeah,

[00:36:40] Adam Cox: the surface level stuff. Yeah, they don't really care, maybe, the detail. 

[00:36:44] Kyle Risi: Exactly, I think that's fair to say. So a couple days pass, and a new headline appears in the press where Charles basically, he says that what he said wasn't true and that Rob and Fab actually did sing on their record. 

[00:36:55] Adam Cox: So, what you're saying, or what I'm reading, is someone called him up and went Hey, you [00:37:00] signed an NDA, you're getting into trouble, if you don't, like, put out a statement. 

[00:37:04] Kyle Risi: So what had happened was basically Frank had given Charles 120, 000 to retract his story. 

[00:37:09] Adam Cox: Oh, so he's bribed. 

[00:37:10] Kyle Risi: He's bribed him. In my opinion, this bribe was pointless because the story, whether or not true or not, would only just make people pay more attention to Rob and Fab now that they've, like, it's out there.

[00:37:21] Oh, someone said that they're not singing on the records. Let's pay extra close attention to see if it's actually true, right? 

[00:37:26] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:37:27] Kyle Risi: But also, this article It's only going to cause more outrage later on when it finally does emerge because now this makes them look like they're actively trying to conceal the lie.

[00:37:39] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess if people are starting to talk about it there's always going to be these murmurs and stuff like that and that's just going to undermine them and discredit them in the future. But then, for Charles, does he get into any more trouble then? Because he's taken a bribe, um, and does that damage his reputation? 

[00:37:55] Kyle Risi: I don't think he ever makes as big as a rapper. Okay. Outside of this, so no, not really. And the biggest [00:38:00] smoking gun in all of this, of course, now that obviously the story is out there, the seed has been planted.

[00:38:05] People are looking at Rob and Fab. Obviously, remember one's German, one's French. They have these really strong accents. Oh, yeah. So it's really baffling that they are obviously on these TV shows doing these interviews and they've got these really thick accents yet they're able to sing with flawless American accents on, on their videos.

[00:38:24] Adam Cox: Of course, because I was just thinking, I always thought they were American. Or English or whatever. I'm German or French. Yeah, that makes total sense. How is no one questioning? I mean, I haven't questioned up until this point. Here's the issue. 

[00:38:36] Kyle Risi: No one's paying that close of attention. So that's how they're able to get away with this.

[00:38:41] Adam Cox: Yeah, because sometimes you have singers who don't have a very strong speaking accent, but then when they sing you can't really tell it's plausible When 

[00:38:48] Kyle Risi: you actually hear their voices, you can tell that they're not quite English. They are clearly German vocalists or session artists that are singing so you can sense the accent coming in But especially with Rob his accent is so French, [00:39:00] right? It's so So thick. So yeah, but the reality is no one's really paying close enough attention at this moment in time to really notice that's going to come, but it's all building.

[00:39:10] Plus, remember at the time, lots of artists lip sync to backing tracks anyway. Milli Vanilli was no exception. They were known for being energetic on stage. So singing out of breath would just be a major distraction. So I guess the difference here is that people just assumed that they were lip syncing to their own songs that they previously recorded in a studio. Makes sense. So, despite Charles Shaw's article, the lion is being kept at bay for now. 

[00:39:36] But in March 1989, Milli Vanilli kick off a huge North American publicity blitz. They perform at the Soul Train Awards, at AIDS Benefits, they pick up a Juno Award in Toronto for International Album of the Year, and they end up doing hundreds of concerts across America. And they lip sync all of their songs, which becomes a major struggle for them because they knew that they [00:40:00] were living this lie. Every single day that passed, there was a chance that they were going to be exposed, especially since they had that kind of close brush with the truth under Charles Shore's article in the paper. And so now all they thought was that it was just a matter of time. 

[00:40:13] Rob said in an interview later on, like we sing along every night at our concerts But the audience is not allowed to hear our own voice We can sing and after a while you forget that it's not your voice But we are afraid to tell anyone when people find out that we're not singing your credibility is just going to be shot We will become a joke 

[00:40:34] Adam Cox: That's interesting because they it sounds like they almost believe their lie or get to a point where they have to do that in order To keep going 

[00:40:41] Kyle Risi: That's exactly what he does.

[00:40:42] He continues to say how it ended up twisting their sense of reality. He says, one of the weird psychological things about what we were doing is that we perform a hundred concerts, but slowly and surely you begin to believe you really are the singer. And it really screws you up.

[00:40:58] You're on stage and you catch yourself [00:41:00] thinking, wow, that's really our voice, but in reality, it's not. So it's really starting to mess them up and they have integrity. They really want to. sing for themselves, but they're just not allowed to do it. 

[00:41:10] Adam Cox: Do they eventually sing? And then when people hear their voices like, oh god, no. 

[00:41:14] Kyle Risi: They do eventually sing and it's not good. 

[00:41:17] Adam Cox: Oh, poor Millie Vanillie. No,

[00:41:21] Kyle Risi: Following Charles Shaw's article, the pressure was also on Frank and Clive too. So much so that they ended up printing a note to the back of each album claiming that the vocals were indeed Robert and Fab.

[00:41:31] So they're trying to kind of like cover something up. It's almost like they're desperate. They can hear the murmurings and they're like this, this will quash all the rumors. Let's put a sticker on the back of the album. It's definitely Milli Vanilli. 

[00:41:42] Adam Cox: So the thing is though, I feel like you can do what they're doing, but not Put a sticker to say it's definitely them. You can obviously, I don't know, mislead or whatever, but not outright state it's them. 

[00:41:53] Kyle Risi: It's almost like the, uh, the lady protests too much. And I think for everyone involved, they knew the secret was bound to come out [00:42:00] eventually, but at the time, they just couldn't just walk away, especially while they're at the peak of their careers, right?

[00:42:05] They were in peak money making mode, but they were about to face their first real brush with trouble. 

[00:42:12] And so, I think it's a good time to take a quick break, and when we come back, I'm going to tell you how everything starts on Revel. For Paul, Rob and Fab.

[00:42:21] So Adam, we're back. What are you thinking? 

[00:42:24] Adam Cox: I'm thinking that it's clearly going to unravel soon. 

[00:42:28] Kyle Risi: I just said that before the break. We know that it's going to happen right now. 

[00:42:31] Adam Cox: Yeah, and i'm just about to say That I want to know what the catalyst is or what that single point where people it really starts to gain momentum 

[00:42:39] Kyle Risi: so basically a few months into their North American Blitz on July the 21st in 1989, milli Vanilli is scheduled to perform at the MTV Club Summer Tour event with tens of thousands of teenagers, eager to see them live.

[00:42:52] The boys take the stage, looking fit as ever, especially Rob, right? Shut up about Rob, alright? He's not all that. They're [00:43:00] ready to absolutely smash it. They're bouncing around with their signature braid extensions, their black leather jackets, their spandex, the crowd, mostly kind of enthusiastic teenagers, all sing along to Girl You Know It's True.

[00:43:12] And the lyrics, they're simple, right? It's easy for everyone to remember. As the audience, get into the song, suddenly. The lyrics start skipping. Uh oh. Girl you know it, girl you know it, girl you know it, girl you know it. And Rob and Fab, they just freeze. They have no idea what to do in that moment.

[00:43:32] So they exchange kind of knowing looks back and forth. And they just decide to continue dancing. And inside, Rob is panicked. Like he later said, I knew right then and there. That this was the beginning of the end for Mili Vanilli. 

[00:43:46] So Rob runs off stage while Fab just continues to dance alone. This is like Ashley Simpson's thing. It is! Oh no. So bad. So backstage Rob is intercepted and they try to kind of urge him to get [00:44:00] back out there.

[00:44:01] So after a few kind of muttered curses and nods, Rob rejoins Fab and together they just finish the performance. Let's be honest, this flashback is just blown out of proportion because most of the crowd didn't even notice what had happened. Like it was quite quick, and nor did anyone care either.

[00:44:18] Before anyone knew anything, they were just really into their next song. So there was no immediate public fallout from this incident at all. But most people peg this as the thing, the thing that kind of ended their career, there's still loads more to happen. 

[00:44:34] Adam Cox: I guess something like this, maybe the paranoia or them feeling really shit about themselves just mounts up.

[00:44:40] Kyle Risi: That's it, and I think this could definitely be recognised as the starting event that kickstarts it all. So while there was no immediate public fallout from this incident, word does reach back to the record label and it prompts like a crisis meeting where they all get together to start brainstorming what the next steps should be.

[00:44:58] Someone suggests [00:45:00] maybe we should just cut a record where the boys actually sing, which I think, yes, But they point out that this could actually be worse because they're not amazing singers. They can sing, but they're not amazing. And so they all agree that the real issue wasn't their singing. It was there talking.

[00:45:17] Oh, so they start figuring out how they can prevent Rob and fab from speaking in interviews and on TV shows 

[00:45:23] Adam Cox: So that's that's their solution. Just don't talk and then no one will ever question it 

[00:45:28] Kyle Risi: Yep. So following the MTV event The American press starts slowly picking up the story.

[00:45:34] Late night talk shows start roasting them making jokes about their thick German accents but then able to kind of sing in American flawless English and just whispers about Milli Vanilli start growing louder and louder and of course seeing these headlines in the media Rob and Fab they begin to fear that the day that they had been dreading was finally here.

[00:45:55] Their confidence just waned and they prepared to face the public in the light of the [00:46:00] scandal. And genuinely, these guys weren't bad guys. They had a degree of integrity. As Fab puts it later on, we were seduced by the lifestyle and the love that we were getting from our fans, but they knew that What they were doing was wrong and they were stuck between a rock and a hard place because of this contract, right?

[00:46:19] They wanted to sing with their own voices on the next record, but they just weren't allowed to do so They actively tried to make that happen. But again this contract kept getting flung in their face and at the same time they're inexperienced.

[00:46:29] They don't know how the production world works So they just went along with it hoping that it all rectified itself 

[00:46:35] Adam Cox: The thing is if they had just had a one or two hits Wonder type thing probably would have been fine. 

[00:46:40] Kyle Risi: They've got five smash hits at this moment. 

[00:46:42] Adam Cox: Yeah So they've built up quite a big fan base. And so therefore that's where you're starting to lead people or string people along. 

[00:46:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And they are, like I said, they're really good guys. The biggest impact on them was a feeling that they had betrayed their fans who had spent good money on their albums and their merchandise 

[00:46:58] so while the press was [00:47:00] reporting on this, they had no idea how their fans were going to react. But then something amazing happened. Fans didn't seem to care.

[00:47:06] There was no sign that this train was going to slow down. Fans still loved them just as much as ever. And so they were still being mobbed wherever they went. And they started to believe and that they were out of the woods, but also this realization had kind of a particularly interesting psychological impact on Rob because around about this time he was experimenting a lot more with drugs and other things. And the imposter syndrome that had before made him really humble and relatable and lovable, had now led him to kind of make him feel like he was untouchable developing the sense of grandioseness about him. 

[00:47:39] Adam Cox: So becoming more arrogant and actually full of himself and just believing the hype a little bit?

[00:47:45] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Yeah, he was like, we almost got exposed. Well, we did get exposed, but fans didn't care. No one cared. There was no fallout from this. So soon after the CD skipping incident, Rob does an interview with Time magazine where he says, Musically, [00:48:00] we are more talented than Bob Dylan. Musically, we are more talented than Paul McCartney. Mick Jagger, his lines are not clear. He doesn't know how to produce a sound. I am the new modern rock and roll. I am the new Elvis. 

[00:48:14] Adam Cox: Okay, hang on a minute. I feel for you because you can't get out of it because of the contract. But now to say that you're better than Paul McCartney and Bob, um, Bob Dylan. 

[00:48:23] Kyle Risi: Think about it, think about the psychological impact that this is having, right? They know they were living a lie. They came close to being exposed. Fans didn't care. The media hasn't really picked up on it in a big way. It's out there in the media, but no one's reacting to it. You start to get the sense that actually, hang on a minute, maybe we are superstars. 

[00:48:41] Adam Cox: Fair enough being superstars and a personality. I can get with that. And maybe they are more of a personality than Paul McCartney. But being a better musician than them. 

[00:48:51] Kyle Risi: Remember as well, they've fallen into this trap of believing that that is their voice on the record sometimes.

[00:48:56] But then they're also caught between this thing of when they're in front of the cameras or in front of news [00:49:00] reporters, you have to present in a certain way as if you have sung songs as well. He does later clarify that the reporter misunderstood his German accent. But I mean, like, how do you misinterpret, I'm the new Elvis? 

[00:49:12] Adam Cox: Yeah, an accent won't do that. That's actual words that come out of your mouth. 

[00:49:15] Kyle Risi: Unless he meant, I'm the new Elvin from Elvin and the Chicken Monks. Um, I don't, yeah, okay. So following this interview, milli Vanilli become a lot less appealing, obviously, despite the world believing their downfall was due to lip syncing to Session Artists, it was actually because of this interview that kicked off this entire backlash.

[00:49:34] Because in response to the Time Magazine interview, Rolling Stones awards them the Worst Artist of the Year and also the Worst Song of the Year, just as like a joke kind of award, pointing out just how arrogant they've become comparing themselves to Elvis. 

[00:49:46] Adam Cox: they remained humble. and continued lying, people would have been actually fine with it? 

[00:49:51] Kyle Risi: I really genuinely think so. So while all of this is happening, of course, awards season is in full swing. Most nominations had already been cast and the winners [00:50:00] had already been decided. Of course, Milli Vanilli have received numerous nominations.

[00:50:06] And in the fallout of the Time Magazine interview, they were just praying that they didn't win. Because of course, that would just intensify the scrutiny around them. But sadly, they didn't get their wish. Because at the 33rd annual Grammy Awards in 1990, Milli Vanilli was announced as the winner for the best new artist of that year.

[00:50:25] And when they go up on stage, they're obviously acting all thrilled, like they're really pleased. But inside they're thinking, we're so fucking screwed. 

[00:50:33] Adam Cox: Yeah, can you imagine that? So everyone's like looking at you with like daggers and stuff like that as you're collecting that award and so that Vote had already been decided before the Times Magazine. Yeah. 'cause 

[00:50:45] Kyle Risi: all these things are happening at the same time, right? So they're all overlapping. But yeah, the same year they also win three American music awards. Favorite pop rock, new artist, favorite Soul and r and b. New artist and favorite pop rock song for girl. You know, it's true. 

[00:50:59] And each [00:51:00] trophy they pick up, they just said it felt like a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode. And as the saying goes, girl, you know, it's true because that's exactly what happened. 

[00:51:10] So a few more session artists decided to start coming forward saying that it wasn't right that Milli Vanilli had won when in fact it was their voices on these records.

[00:51:20] Meanwhile, Rob and Fab were being proactive in trying to redeem themselves. Without Frank knowing, they start working with vocal coaches to prepare to sing on the second album in a way that kind of mimicked the original records.

[00:51:33] Their plan was to try and convincingly transition into the second album without anyone noticing that kind of shift in their voices. 

[00:51:39] Adam Cox: Okay, makes sense. 

[00:51:41] Kyle Risi: When they're done, they then approach Frank and say like, We're ready, let's go, let's go with the next album. But Frank responds Boys, we've already recorded the second album.

[00:51:49] No, already. Oopsie. I mean, I 

[00:51:52] Adam Cox: say like I'm surprised. We knew this was going to happen, right? 

[00:51:55] Kyle Risi: So this is where Rob and Fab, they decide like, Enough is enough. And they tell Frank, [00:52:00] like, they're going to the press to tell them the truth. And Frank countered, he's like, not if I get there first. 

[00:52:06] Adam Cox: Really? So he's rather, like, sabotaged his own artist than being, I don't know, lied about, oh yeah, a snitch.

[00:52:13] Kyle Risi: That's it. I think also he knew the writing was on the wall, right? And he knew that this is all going to come out eventually, and he just wants to get there first rather than him being exposed. 

[00:52:21] Adam Cox: But then why go through with the second album? 

[00:52:23] Kyle Risi: I guess, do you know what? At this moment in time, he could They're just the front people, right? If he wanted to, he could probably re release that album And just swap out the models. 

[00:52:32] Adam Cox: Yeah, different band or something. 

[00:52:34] Kyle Risi: Yeah, because they're becoming too much of a problem. 

[00:52:37] Adam Cox: Yeah, fair enough. 

[00:52:38] Kyle Risi: So he organizes a press conference, and he exposes everything he announces. Yep, it's true. I fired Robin fab. They never sang a single note. Oh, on any of those records. And he brings the original session artists who sang those songs and he lines them up in front of them. And he tells the world, it was important for everyone to see who the real singers were. 

[00:52:58] Adam Cox: Oh, shut up, Frank. Yeah, [00:53:00] how dare you try and do that as if like you're better. You're the you're the one that's kind of realized the mistake and it was all Millie and Vanilli. 

[00:53:07] Kyle Risi: He's just awful. And Adam. When you watch this interview, they're just all sitting quietly on the sofa and it's very uncomfortable to watch. They don't know where to look. They don't know whether to look into the camera or to look off onto the side. And while he's speaking, they don't want to be there. 

[00:53:22] Adam Cox: So how many are there? Because I,

[00:53:24] Kyle Risi: there were four of them. So three guys and one girl singing. 

[00:53:27] Adam Cox: Oh, okay. So they had multiple people as their voice. 

[00:53:31] Kyle Risi: There's probably more because also we didn't see Charles Shaw on that Panel so there was multiple people that were singing interchangeably probably 

[00:53:38] Adam Cox: So they must all have a similar sound then to pass off as it's coming from one person Yeah, or two people. 

[00:53:44] Kyle Risi: Well, there's two people. Yeah, and I mean Frank was really harsh on Robin Fab as well. He claimed that they had auditioned for him, which they hadn't. And he insisted that they were really bad singers. And he just also showed no remorse. He stated that he was really proud of what he achieved on those records [00:54:00] and that this was just how the industry worked.

[00:54:03] So it's really gross to watch. And this becomes the biggest story in the world that year. And to put that into context, other headlines included the Berlin Wall had fallen that year, the Soviet Union had collapsed, Nelson Mandela was released from prison, the Gulf War breaks out, and Milli Vanilli are exposed for lip syncing to their records.

[00:54:22] Adam Cox: And that's the number one news story that year? 

[00:54:24] Kyle Risi: Pretty much, yeah. Wow, 

[00:54:25] Adam Cox: controversy. 

[00:54:27] Kyle Risi: So following this, radio stations worldwide, they organized gatherings where people will collectively be. Come together to destroy all their mini vanilla records or merchandise that they owned. They literally ran them over with bulldozers and then set fire to them.

[00:54:41] So it was a whole spectacle all over the country and Robin fab. They held their own press conference, bringing in their vocal coach that they've been working with. And he stated, yeah, it's true. The guys didn't sing or rap on any of the songs, but they do have talent and they could have done it given the chance. And then they show them a video [00:55:00] of them singing, go, you know, it's true that they had recorded in their own voices, but the journalists just mock them.

[00:55:05] It's horrible to watch Adam. because They're trying to clear their names and explain that they were the victims in all of this. But the journalists just responded with questions like, how do we know that you're not just lip syncing in that video as well, right? And they pressure them to sing and rap right there on the spot.

[00:55:21] And eventually after, obviously they're like, you know, the microphones aren't that great. Maybe we shouldn't trust us. It's definitely us singing in the, in the video. They're just like, okay, yeah, we will. And they're not good. And it's also really difficult to watch, not because they were awful, awful, awful, but it's because they didn't come across as cool anymore. Instead, they just seem really desperate. 

[00:55:42] Adam Cox: Oh, poor guys. I feel for them. 

[00:55:44] Kyle Risi: Yeah, they explained their story from the beginning and detailed obviously their situation, but this did nothing to quell the fire that had now been ignited. So what they do is they decide that they're going to return their Grammy, thinking that this will obviously help, but it didn't. The media just capitalizes on it even [00:56:00] more, and there's just even more outrage. Because someone's given back a Grammy, so it just attracted more media headlines again. 

[00:56:06] Adam Cox: Yeah, I don't know what I would advise them to do in that situation, probably just fade into obscurity because I don't know, there's no way, there's no way of winning it though, right now, and maybe come back, I don't know, in a year or something like that.

[00:56:20] Kyle Risi: Possibly. Of course, since they returned their Grammy, the question was who was going to be the runner up, right? But ultimately, the Grammys decided that there just wouldn't be a winner that year.

[00:56:29] And that's the sad reality. Even though they tried to explain that they were the victims of manipulation, nobody wanted to listen. Once, of course, the train leaves the station, there's no changing the narrative, no matter what you say. The premise of the story was too lucrative for the media and they weren't interested in putting the genie back in that bottle.

[00:56:50] Everyone involved was interviewed, including obviously Clive Davis, who apparently was stunned by the revelation. He's like, I can't believe it. [00:57:00] Millie? Vanilli? Not Millie. Maybe Vanilli. But not Millie. But come on, like, of course he knew. Of course he did. The boys ended up losing all of the money that they had made, which wasn't much.

[00:57:13] Most of it went towards paying their lawyers. Frank claimed that he paid the boys two million dollars in total. But remember, just like Lou Pearlman with NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, they were on the hook for all of their expenses. We're talking hotel bills, flights, dance training, everything. They had to pay for all of that.

[00:57:30] So they were left with very little money. The little money that they did make was lost through these ridiculous class action lawsuits from people claiming to have suffered from the fallout. 

[00:57:41] Adam Cox: Who suffered from this? 

[00:57:43] Kyle Risi: So there were these ads on TV saying, Did you receive a gift of a Milli Vanilli cassette, CD or record, or attend any of their concerts?

[00:57:51] Or did you buy any of their merchandise? You could be entitled to compensation. Call this number now. No way. 

[00:57:58] And people came forward and they testified. They were saying [00:58:00] things like, My daughter has suffered immensely throughout this entire ordeal and she's unlikely to ever recover. We need a new family Volvo to get us through this.

[00:58:09] Adam Cox: Our Our marriage broke down and my wife ran up with the milkman. 

[00:58:13] Kyle Risi: My daughter was in a relationship with a Milli Vanilli poster for four years.

[00:58:20] So yeah, those things are happening, man. It was fucking hilarious. Meanwhile, Frank and Clive, completely unscathed. They went back to making hits and raking in the cash, becoming even richer and more successful with every new kind of band that they launched or every new release of an album. But after the scandal, the boys moved to Los Angeles and they tried to rebrand as just Rob and Fab. They released a little album, which was unfortunately a complete commercial failure. It only ended up selling 2, 000 copies. 

[00:58:47] Adam Cox: I just think, yeah, the moment's past, I don't see, yeah, people don't trust them and what the media's done to them. Yeah, it's not going to work. 

[00:58:55] Kyle Risi: It's probably here that they decide to separate ways and pursue solo projects.

[00:58:59] But [00:59:00] nothing of note emerged from any of these efforts. In 1998, bizarrely, they both return and reunite with Frank to record a new album where they will actually get to sing. But the project is never completed because in April of 1998, Rob dies from a drug overdose. Oh really? In a hotel room just outside Frankfurt.

[00:59:21] Yeah. In 2003, Fab releases his solo album called Love Revolution, which he writes, he produces, and he sings himself. Though, it doesn't achieve any kind of widespread commercial success at all. He later does form a band called Fabulous Addiction, and they release a song called See the Light in 2012. But since then, he's just like scraping. any little jobs and gigs that he can. Like he's starred in a few TV ads for a gum commercial and a KFC commercial. But other than that, they've never really gotten a taste of that stardom that was built on their own merit. 

[00:59:59] And I [01:00:00] believe that they could have achieved it, like given the chance, like they weren't. awful singers, but if the money had been invested in singing coaches and getting the image right and really working on their vocals, I think they could have done it because they could still dance. And that was the one thing that fans really loved, right? They had this really amazing look, this great aesthetic, and they could dance.

[01:00:24] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it feels like you know where they say I've got the x factor, they've got the y factor. It feels like they probably had that and they just needed some time like training. I think they were just really fucking hot.

[01:00:39] Kyle Risi: So it's a very bad situation and it's a story that reminds us of the gross manipulation and exploitation tactics of the music industry. These boys were contractual slaves with no way out They had the integrity to want to achieve success on their own terms in their own merit But they signed these disgusting contracts that essentially enslaved them and this [01:01:00] ultimately took a profound toll on their mental health something nobody in the industry Even considers even today people need to understand and consider that people can be badly affected by the consequences of being famous, 

[01:01:14] Adam Cox: yeah, I mean you only have to look at more recent events, because you think, oh this is in the 90s, that happened with Britney, Backstreet Boys or whatever. But then you have the death of Liam Payne and whatever went on with the X Factor, I'm not quite, there's definitely something, not saying the X Factor, I'm saying the music industry of building these people up, not giving them rest, breaks and whatever, and it takes them on a path which is a lot darker than they probably would have had had they led a normal life. 

[01:01:42] Kyle Risi: Once again, the media sensationalism over something that in reality, I honestly believe ordinary people just didn't care about, but they use this to try and peddle a story that they knew could potentially sell papers.

[01:01:55] But I don't think really people care too much that they weren't singing their own songs. I think they would [01:02:00] have been forgiven for that if the media hadn't tried to capitalize on it. And Adam, that is the story of the rise and fall of Milli Vanilli. 

[01:02:08] Adam Cox: Wow, who would have thought? I didn't realise, that they would try to come back again in 1998, was it?

[01:02:14] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm. 

[01:02:15] Adam Cox: As if they would trust Frank to do that. I know! I know! It's like, sure, I will let you sing on this one, guys. 

[01:02:21] Kyle Risi: Oh, by the way, guys, last minute change. Oh, that contract you signed? That's for like a 20 year contract. 20 albums you owe us. 

[01:02:29] Adam Cox: Yeah, but hey ho, poor guys. 

[01:02:32] Kyle Risi: So should we run the outro for this week? 

[01:02:33] Adam Cox: Let's do 

[01:02:34] Kyle Risi: it and that wraps up another journey into the fascinating and intriguing on the compendium If today's episode tickled your curiosity, then don't forget to hit that follow button in your favorite podcasting app It makes the world a difference when you do and for our diehard listeners, next week's episode is waiting for you right on our Patreon, completely free.

[01:02:52] If you're hungry for more, then you can join our Certified Freaks tier and unlock our entire archive of unreleased episodes. We'd love you to come and [01:03:00] join our growing community. Remember, new episodes drop every Tuesday, and until then, remember, sometimes fame really is just lip service. See you next time.

[01:03:10] Adam Cox: See ya.