The Exorcism of Roland Doe: The True Story Behind The Exorcist

In this episode of The Compendium, we are diving head first into The Exorcism of Roland Doe, the terrifying true story behind The Exorcist movie. That's right, it was real! This real-life exorcism story recounts the chilling experiences of young Roland Doe, also known as Ronald Hunkeler, whose battle with alleged demonic possession shook his family and the Catholic Church to its core, testing their strength and faith. Today we'll discuss Ouija board dangers, Father William Bowdern’s harrowing exorcism attempts, and the haunting diary kept by Father Raymond Bishop. Is this a case of supernatural possession, or something psychological? 

We give you the Compendium, but if you want more, then check out these great resources:

1. Possessed: The True Story of an Exorcism by Thomas Allen
2. Exorcism of Roland Doe - Wikipedia
3. The Exorcist by William Peter Blatty
4. The Roman Ritual - Wikipedia
5. The Exorcism of Roland Doe - Paranormal documentary, available on YouTube

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Credits:

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• Intro and Outro Music: Alice in dark Wonderland by Aleksey Chistilin
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Chapters

• 0:00 Sneak peak
• 1:06 Welcome to The Compendium
• 2:25 Topic of the week
• 9:45 All the latest things
• 19:47 Topic of the week
• 1:18:06 Outro

Transcript

[00:00:00] Adam Cox: I just imagine the training almost like you know when you do uh first aid and you have like an annie doll and you're like And I imagine that you have to, like, I don't know, exercise an anti doll to get through this.

[00:00:12] And you're like shaking it, like banging it against the wall. And just like throwing it out the window, like, yep, problem solved. 

[00:00:18] Kyle Risi: And they've got the doll rigged up to kind of like violently vomit on you.

[00:00:24] Let's see how Father Tom handles this. Tom, I'm gonna say that was a, maybe a four. Out of ten. You can't cut off the head. Yeah. That's not how this works. 

[00:00:32] Father Tom, stop having sex with the dummy. This is not how we deal with a sexy, demonically possessed child. Oh god, child. I mean, person, person. Kyle. [00:01:00]

[00:01:08] Welcome to The Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. A weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. We explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the annuls of your old unread history books, and the who's who of extraordinary people.

[00:01:29] I'm, of course, your ringmaster this week, Kyle Recy. 

[00:01:33] Adam Cox: And I'm your pretzel seller, Adam Cox. 

[00:01:36] Kyle Risi: So butt scratcher last week, pretzel seller this week. 

[00:01:38] Adam Cox: Yes, I like to make sure the crowd has got, are well fed, and their bum is not itchy. 

[00:01:44] Kyle Risi: I can't help but feel that you have navigated away from the actual central cast of the circus to the help.

[00:01:52] Adam Cox: I am just making sure all bases are covered. Next week could be the toilet attendant. 

[00:01:56] Kyle Risi: Could be. No spray, no laugh. Do you [00:02:00] remember when Nick, was telling us how he went to a public toilet in Thailand and the toilet attendant all of a sudden started giving him a massage while he was there having a wee?

[00:02:11] Adam Cox: Mid flow. 

[00:02:12] Kyle Risi: I mean, there would have been piss everywhere if that was me. 

[00:02:15] Adam Cox: Yeah. Generally, I would just like Probably cut it short and get out. 

[00:02:20] Kyle Risi: I'd cut it short on him. I'd be like, get the fuck off me, Adam. It's Halloween, baby. It is. So, of course, in the spirit of things, in today's compendium, we are diving into an assembly of restless spirits and a battle of faith that inspired a horror classic.

[00:02:42] Dun, dun, duuuun! Horror classic, 

[00:02:44] Adam Cox: Nightmare on Elm Street? Hmm, the Ring? The Grudge? I'm trying to remember spooky movies when I was like, 18. 

[00:02:52] Kyle Risi: Well, in today's episode of The Compendium, I'm going to be telling you about the real life events that inspired the movie, The Exorcist. 

[00:02:59] Adam Cox: [00:03:00] Oh, THE, movie.

[00:03:01] Kyle Risi: THE movie. The one that everyone always was like, that is the classic Hollywood horror movie. That really caused a stir when it first got released. What do you remember about the exorcist? 

[00:03:13] Adam Cox: Well, I remember before I'd watched it, it was known as the scariest movie ever. It made people that went to see it in the cinemas, commit suicide or run out screaming or things like that. 

[00:03:23] Kyle Risi: Same, same. I heard that as well. And we were warned never to watch it.

[00:03:26] Never 

[00:03:27] Adam Cox: to watch it. But then I did get it on DVD, when you could get three or four DVDs from Tesco for 10. And I watched it, and I remember going, Is that it? Is this what all the fuss was about? It was creepy, don't get me wrong, because there's the girl, she gets possessed, she's in the bed, she's saying a whole load of profanity, and she's throwing up and all stuff, and her head's going round.

[00:03:46] It was weird, but it wasn't quite, it didn't make me want to run out of my lounge screaming. 

[00:03:51] Kyle Risi: The concept of it for me was quite scary. It was more the special effects that were like, a little bit dated. 

[00:03:56] Adam Cox: Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe that's the, if it, if I hadn't [00:04:00] seen it. special effects up until that point and that was the first time seeing something like that then I probably would have been freaked out.

[00:04:06] Kyle Risi: My next question is As a real life set of events, how skeptical are you about demonic possession? 

[00:04:13] Adam Cox: Are you saying that this is based on a true story? 

[00:04:16] Kyle Risi: 100%. It is based on a true story. But this is the thing, right? first of all, The Exorcist isn't the only demonic possession film that has been inspired by real events. The 2005 film Emily Rose is based on the real life exorcism of a young German girl called Anneliese Michael, which is a very famous case of demonic possession, but as far as I can tell from my research, it was pretty much proven that she was suffering from some serious mental issues.

[00:04:45] In fact, following her death, her parents and the priest involved were all prosecuted. So I never really subscribed to demonic possession stories until today. Today is different and I know you're a massive [00:05:00] skeptic too, when it comes to ghosts and demons. I think that is evident, especially after the Enfield Poltergeist episode that we did last year, where I think it's safe to say. that was a whole bunch of boo hockey. What happened there, Adam? Tell us. 

[00:05:14] Adam Cox: There's these pictures of kids jumping on beds, isn't there? But then they were trying to make out that they were being thrown across the room. 

[00:05:20] Kyle Risi: Yep. 

[00:05:21] Adam Cox: And I can't remember, what was the background? there was speculation they did this because, they were trying to keep the house or they wanted to move house.

[00:05:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I believe the mother wanted to move closer to, her brother. Obviously this was set in Enfield in London and she had asked the council to move her but they kept refusing. So there's speculation that she had the motivation or the motive to stage a lot of these kind of happenings in the house.

[00:05:47] And her kids were obviously orchestrating a lot of these pranks in order to get the council to move them. And it just resorted in a lot of people come to investigate. And I think they just got caught up in a lie because eventually everything just [00:06:00] ended really abruptly, didn't it? Yeah. So I think from that, even though it was a great story and really amazing moments in it, I think it was obvious that it was just crap.

[00:06:10] But today's story is different, it is widely acknowledged that the novel and the film drew upon actual real life events. Of course, as creatives often do, the details get embellished in their retelling, making it difficult to separate art from what actually happened years later.

[00:06:26] Which is actually the question that looms over the story of the exorcist. And for almost 40 years, all we knew about the actual events was that in 1949, a 13 year old boy under the pseudonym of Ronald Doe, whose real name would later be revealed as Ronald Hunkler, became possessed by an evil spirit after he attempted to contact his dead aunt using a Ouija board. 

[00:06:49] Now, the entity quickly took over him and resulted in dozens of attempts by the church to try and exorcise it, literally almost killing Roland in the process.

[00:06:57] And for 40 years, that has always [00:07:00] all we knew. And the reason why we knew this was because following the events in 1949, a Lutheran minister called Father Myles Schultz, who was partly involved in the early exorcisms of Roland, went on to give a series of lectures. And from there, countless retellings of the story evolved far from what actually happened.

[00:07:20] Even Father Miles would later be criticized for embellishing some of the details to make the story more appealing. However, there was another priest involved in the story. Unlike Father Miles, Father Raymond Bishop actually played an instrumental role in almost all of the exorcisms that were carried out on Rowland.

[00:07:38] Now Raymond, Also kept a detailed account of the events in a diary and when the whole ordeal was over Raymond did as the church instructed and kept everything a secret even handing over his diary to the church And that is where it was locked away for almost 40 years until in the 1990s When a [00:08:00] writer Thomas Allen stumbled upon it when he was researching for a book that he was writing 

[00:08:04] Now realizing what he had found, he set out to interview 40 witnesses who all corroborated the details. The diary is thought to be one of the most thoroughly documented instances of demonic possession in American history, allowing the world to finally separate fact from fiction for the events depicted in that film.

[00:08:23] Adam Cox: Okay, so you've piqued my interest. It sounds like there's more to it than just, someone making this up. 

[00:08:28] Kyle Risi: exactly. Now, a note to our listeners. I am not just saying this because, of course, this is our Halloween special. These people and the places that I mentioned in today's episode All exist and this story is very well documented.

[00:08:42] You can go and look them up and I urge you to do so. This is what makes this story so incredible and at the same time so terrifying. When I was researching this the amount of times that I came up to you telling you that I'm petrified to go to sleep tonight because I think the [00:09:00] credibility of the story just added to the terrifying nature of it.

[00:09:03] So today Adam, I'm going to be telling you about the exorcism of Roland Hunkler, the real life events behind The Exorcist. 

[00:09:13] Adam Cox: Okay. All right. So I've got to suspend my disbelief. 

[00:09:16] Kyle Risi: I think that's really important because of course, naturally we are quite sceptical and I'm sure a lot of our listeners are quite sceptical as well.

[00:09:22] But in the spirit of Halloween, I think we should Suspend our disbelief just a little bit, but also acknowledge that a lot of the things we're going to be covering today, in fact everything, is rooted in fact. These things actually happen, the places actually exist, the people were real.

[00:09:39] Adam Cox: Okay, well I will refrain from being too sarky as much as possible, but I can't promise anything. 

[00:09:44] Kyle Risi: I'm happy with that. But before we kick off today's episode, I think it's time for

[00:09:50] So this is a segment of our show where we catch up on all the things we've discovered over the last seven days. From [00:10:00] weird news to mind boggling facts. This week, it's Adam's turn to go first. So Adam What have you got for us today? 

[00:10:07] Adam Cox: So today, Kyle, have you ever heard of the thylacine or thylacine? 

[00:10:15] Kyle Risi: It sounds like an era of time. Yeah, it does actually. Like the Jurassic era. 

[00:10:19] Adam Cox: The Mesozoic era. The 

[00:10:20] Kyle Risi: Mesozoic era, yes. Well, 

[00:10:22] Adam Cox: it's not. It's actually, a animal that's extinct. It's more commonly known as the Tasmanian tiger.

[00:10:29] Kyle Risi: Okay. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:10:30] Adam Cox: you know it. Mm hmm. I know it. So this dog, type creature, I think became extinct around 1936. Um, but prior to that, it had been, I think, all over Australia, but then started to be hunted. So then it was just on Tasmania, which I think is why it got its name, the Tasmanian tiger.

[00:10:47] And this animal was officially declared extinct in the 1980s, even though the last known one people had seen died in captivity in 1936.

[00:10:55] I guess they thought maybe there's a few out there, but it'd been 50 odd years, and they're like, we haven't [00:11:00] seen one. That's it, they're gone. But, recently, scientists in America have been using cutting edge gene editing expertise to try and bring back, the Tasmanian tiger. And the reason being is there's a skull which has been in, I guess a jar of acid.

[00:11:17] Is it ethanol? Something like that? 

[00:11:19] Is that 

[00:11:20] Kyle Risi: the stuff that they preserve dead bodies in? 

[00:11:22] Adam Cox: Yes, exactly. So this skull had been sitting in this jar for about 110 years. But because it's been so well preserved, they've been able to, chop large chunks off it and study its DNA. And aside from it looking, obviously a bit gross, it contains material that scientists thought would be impossible to find.

[00:11:40] And there's actually a realistic possibility that they can bring back this animal in the next three to five years. Really? That would be awesome. So how they're looking to do it is the closest animal living today, believe it or not, is a mouse. 

[00:11:54] Kyle Risi: To the Tasmanian tiger?

[00:11:56] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's a fat tailed dunnet. So the Tasmanian tiger is a [00:12:00] marsupial, so I think it used to carry its young in a little sack a bit like a kangaroo. Yeah. So this mouse, they're using that to basically, I guess, transform its DNA to make it closer to Let's 

[00:12:10] Kyle Risi: hope they're not going to force this mouse to give birth to a Tasmanian tiger!

[00:12:14] Jesus! 

[00:12:15] Adam Cox: I think, yeah, they'd look to do it similar to how they would,create embryos with IVF. They'd do it obviously in a tube and everything like that. 

[00:12:22] Kyle Risi: And I've seen them create, like artificial wombs for like sheeps and things like that and rear them in these weird artificial wombs so potentially that could help 

[00:12:30] Adam Cox: and they've been able to study it so much that they can tell like how it would smell how it brains would work and it can recreate how 

[00:12:36] Kyle Risi: it would physically smell or like how it would go about smelling things 

[00:12:41] Adam Cox: um

[00:12:41] Kyle Risi: because how do you tell What something will smell like from his DNA? 

[00:12:46] Adam Cox: Well, they say that they could work out how it could taste and smell and what kind of vision it had as well as its brain functioning. 

[00:12:53] Kyle Risi: Sure, so I guess they're probably comparing the DNA sequencing for other animals with similar [00:13:00] visual kind of profiles as this one does.

[00:13:02] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess so, but this is the spooky part. They are confident that they can recreate the Tasmanian tiger's skull It's legs, and even it's stripes that it would have on the back of it's butt. Yeah. But they're a little bit unsure how to recreate the rest of it. 

[00:13:19] Kyle Risi: I don't even know what that means.

[00:13:21] Surely you just go with what the DNA's got, right? Just let the DNA do it's thing. 

[00:13:24] Adam Cox: Yeah, but I guess they've got to edit it, in a way, and because it's coming from a mouse, Oh, I see. There's still some gaps in this, so they're pretty confident they can do it, but what they're saying is the first one that they bring back isn't going to be quite, Oh, I see.

[00:13:36] Like, like a mongoloid. Do you remember like, um, Stewie, when he had a infamily guy? He cloned himself, didn't he? He cloned himself. I imagine it could be a bit like that, where it's got three arms. Probably. It'd 

[00:13:47] Kyle Risi: He'd probably just want to kill itself. 

[00:13:49] Adam Cox: Please kill me. But it's come under a bit of criticism because people are like, why can't you use this money to actually try and protect the species that are, already alive. 

[00:13:57] Kyle Risi: Sure. 

[00:13:58] Adam Cox: But I still think it's really fascinating because there's [00:14:00] still plans to bring back like the mammoth and the dodo because there's still DNA on that.

[00:14:04] But what's a good point that someone has raised is that we're trying to bring back an animal into an ecosystem which isn't used to having this animal around. 

[00:14:13] Kyle Risi: It used to be. So we know that if we did bring it back and did decide to let it free into the wild, it would be going into an environment that it was once adapted to. Unless it went extinct due to like climate change. 

[00:14:26] Adam Cox: Yeah and I think it went extinct because of man this time around. but I think it's an interesting thought that I guess the, it's only a hundred years, how much could, nature have changed or its environment, but I guess, species and stuff like that has changed since then.

[00:14:41] And so if we put it back into an environment now, which it could get killed really easily, it could spread disease, who knows, 

[00:14:47] Kyle Risi: I guess they probably wouldn't just release it straight away, I mean, this would be a medical marvel, Adam! Like Ross Geller from Friends. So I doubt that they would just release it out in the wild until they had a few hundred, potentially a [00:15:00] thousand. And that would probably be years and years, potentially even decades away. Yeah. If they could even bring the animal back. 

[00:15:05] Adam Cox: Yeah, but hey, it's pretty groundbreaking. 

[00:15:07] Kyle Risi: Sure, absolutely, amazing. 

[00:15:09] Adam Cox: The Frankenstein Tasmanian Devil. Or Tiger, even. So what have you got for us? So Adam, this week 

[00:15:15] Kyle Risi: I want to tell you about a Shakespeare play that was written by Shakespeare 200 years after he died.

[00:15:24] Adam Cox: Well, that seems impossible. 

[00:15:26] Kyle Risi: So this week in, of course, the spirit of Halloween, I found out about a William Shakespeare play that was supposedly written by Shakespeare some 200 years ago after he had died. And it was transcribed by a man who claimed to have had direct communication with Shakespeare from the spirit world through a series of seances.

[00:15:44] Adam Cox: Okay. 

[00:15:45] Kyle Risi: So it was transcribed by a guy called Victor Hugo in 1853 with the help of a three legged table. Now, what did that play a part? Well, I'll explain in a little more detail in a second, but basically Victor had just fled from France following a warrant for [00:16:00] his escape. for his arrest by Napoleon III. Now, the reason why he was under arrest was because he had written a pamphlet that was criticizing the emperor. 

[00:16:09] So Hugo and his family fled from France and made their way to Jersey where he made it his mission to ensure that his pamphlet would continue to be widely distributed across France.

[00:16:20] So he started printing the pamphlet on onion paper and shipping them in sardine cans, would sometimes stitch the pamphlet into kind of underwear and hollowed out kind of walking sticks. So he had a whole smuggling operation set up for himself. But one night 

[00:16:36] After he had arrived in Jersey, A woman named Delphine de Ghirardin visited Hugo, bringing with her this three legged table that she'd found in a shop.

[00:16:46] And this is the night that Hugo was introduced to the world of seances. Now the method of contacting spirits Delphine showed Hugo was known as table turning, where the table would tap the floor to communicate letters.

[00:16:58] One tap would equal A [00:17:00] and then 26 taps would equal Z as an example and so on. Hugo reportedly made contact with dozens of spirits, including Alexander the Great, Lord Byron, Dante, Galileo, Jesus Christ, Joan of Arc, Moses, Mozart. Plato, Socrates, and even a resident of the planet Jupiter. 

[00:17:22] Adam Cox: With all just hanging out together in, like, a green room backstage. Probably, just waiting 

[00:17:26] Kyle Risi: to be called forward. But amongst those spirits was Shakespeare. But he also communicated with spirits claiming to represent concepts like civilization, death, happiness, inspiration, a comet. The ocean, Russia, so yeah, weird concepts of these spirits. And so through speaking to these spirits, he discovered some really bizarre shit. But when communicating with Shakespeare, he dictated through Hugo and his son an entire comedy called Henry IV.

[00:17:55] Which, by the way, is completely written in French. And according to Shakespeare [00:18:00] himself, he had realized in death that French was the superior language. 

[00:18:05] Adam Cox: So Hugo is French? 

[00:18:07] Kyle Risi: Hugo is French, yeah. 

[00:18:08] Adam Cox: Hugo's gonna say that. Of course he is! Yeah, because I'm assuming Hugo doesn't know English, and so that's the only thing that he's gonna be able to understand.

[00:18:17] Kyle Risi: Well, I mean, he's living in Jersey, by the way. Where they do speak English. But here is the play. The crazy shit. While Hugo was speaking to a spirit claiming to be the concept of civilization, he began to express his frustration about his latest novel, which he was considering abandoning altogether.

[00:18:33] The spirit told him to continue his work because it was going to be the greatest masterpiece of his career. So Hugo agreed and he went on to produce the book Les Miserables. 

[00:18:46] Adam Cox: No way! 

[00:18:46] Kyle Risi: Yeah! Les Mis. He of course also produced The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Oh did he? Yeah. Wow. Isn't that just mental? That's mental. What was he smoking? [00:19:00] Spirits. So that was pretty much the origin story of Hugo Victor. No way. 

[00:19:07] Adam Cox: Do you know what? When you said his name I thought I've heard that name. Where have I heard that? And I'm just thinking yeah I've seen it scribed. 

[00:19:12] Kyle Risi: When we were watching Les Mis in the West End.

[00:19:15] Adam Cox: Yeah. No way I'm not sure I buy the whole Shakespeare being French and like telling a whole play through a chair Or whatever because that must have taken forever. 

[00:19:24] Kyle Risi: It must have taken absolutely donkey years But yeah, this is pretty much I mean I got this story from my absolute hero in the podcasting world Dan Schreiber Who wrote a book called The Theory of Everything Else, which I just absolutely love and it's got all these kind of really weird kind of kooky stories in it. How much they're fact checked and how much they're real, I don't know, but if you get the chance, go read that book. It's just incredible.

[00:19:47] But yeah, Adam, that's all my latest things for this week. Should we get on with the show? 

[00:19:51] Adam Cox: Let's do 

[00:19:51] Kyle Risi: it. So Adam, it was January the 15th, 1949, around about 7pm, when [00:20:00] the first incident occurred in the Hunkler family home in Maryland. Now, 13 year old Roland and his grandmother, heard a loud dripping noise coming from somewhere within the house.

[00:20:11] As they investigated the source of the dripping, they eventually traced the noise to Anna's bedroom. It seemed to be coming from the attic space above her bedroom. So the most obvious conclusion was that this must have been a leaking pipe. But later that night, a new sound emerged in her room. This time, it was a scratching noise and it seemed to be coming from beneath her bed.

[00:20:34] But when they looked under the bed, there was nothing to be seen. Roland's father, Carl. assumed it was probably just a rodent of some kind under the floorboards. Carl promised that he would call the exterminator in the morning but when the exterminator arrived he ripped up the floorboards but there was no evidence of a rodent infestation.

[00:20:53] Nevertheless he laid down some poison but again that night the scratching [00:21:00] continued. What was strange was that it appeared to follow a set schedule. It would start around about 7pm and die down just after midnight. And this kept up for 11 days, until on the 26th of January, the noise moved from Anna's room to Roland's.

[00:21:18] But this time, instead of scratching under the floorboards, Roland heard what he described as a pair of creaking shoes slowly pacing up and down the length of his bed. 

[00:21:29] Karl, Roland, and Anna had no explanation for the noise, but Roland's mother Phyllis had an idea.

[00:21:37] Kyle Risi: You see, Phyllis had come from a long line of women who had always been really interested in spiritualism. In fact, Roland's aunt Harriet, that's Phyllis sister, had been a professional spiritualist and medium, and this was something that deeply connected Roland and Harriet every time she would come to visit from St. Louis, and they would spend hours together teaching [00:22:00] Roland how to use his Ouija board. 

[00:22:02] Adam Cox: Ouija board? Have you ever 

[00:22:04] Kyle Risi: used a Ouija board? I haven't. I'm too scared. I've always been warned not to. 

[00:22:07] Adam Cox: By who? Your mother? 

[00:22:08] Kyle Risi: Yes. Adam, I come from a long line of very religious Christian women. 

[00:22:13] Adam Cox: Fine, or they're witches.

[00:22:15] Kyle Risi: Probably. 

[00:22:16] Adam Cox: Why have you? No, I've never played it. I've always been intrigued because, it's they sell it to kids really, don't they? It is a toy. Yeah, and, is it, you just rest your hand on it and somehow You naturally just move it, I don't know, is there something like impulse that kind of moves it?

[00:22:30] So I hear, yeah, but you're supposed 

[00:22:31] Kyle Risi: to do it with a group. 

[00:22:32] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:22:33] Kyle Risi: but yeah, I don't know what I make of it. I would like to give it a go, but then after reading this, I've reminded myself why we shouldn't. 

[00:22:41] So the woman in Roland's family believed that the dead could see into the future and offer advice to the living based on what they saw. And while some religions warn against the dangers of speaking to spirits, Harriet and Phyllis always believed that there was no such thing as a bad spirit and that no harm could come to [00:23:00] someone acting as a medium.

[00:23:02] When Aunt Harriet passed away earlier that year, Roland was deeply impacted by this loss. To help with his grief, he would use his Ouija board to try and make contact with Harriet to make sure that she was okay in the spirit world. However, Roland never successfully made contact with Harriet or any other spirit for that matter.

[00:23:21] But Phyllis wasn't convinced. She thought that the source of the strange noises was actually Harriet making contact with the family. 

[00:23:29] So on the night of February the 2nd, Phyllis decided to see if the source of the footsteps in Roland's room was her sister trying to make contact. While Phyllis, Roland and his grandmother laid on Roland's bed, Phyllis set out to the room.

[00:23:44] If you are Harriet, please can you knock three times? After a few seconds, they felt a wave of air pass over them, three pulses, and then they heard three distinct knocks on the floor beneath them. Amazed, Phyllis then again asked, [00:24:00] if you are Harriet, tell me positively by knocking four times. And then in that instance, four more pulses of air passed over them, and then they heard four more knocks coming from the bed below them.

[00:24:11] Sign that Harriet had manifested her presence from the spirit world. 

[00:24:17] Adam Cox: Or is it another spirit that's saying, yeah, I'm Harriet, but actually it's not Harriet, it's Dave. 

[00:24:23] Kyle Risi: That's what's crazy about the story, Adam, because there will be instances where There are multiple entities at play here, but we're not sure who is who. Are we being tricked at this point? Is it actually Harriet? Is it something else more sinister? That's what's really crazy about the story. I think if I was going to come back and haunt someone. 

[00:24:42] Adam Cox: And they're like, oh, are you um Are you Diane? I'll be like yeah, I'll go along with this. 

[00:24:46] Kyle Risi: Yeah, let's see where this goes.

[00:24:48] So as the three of them sat upon Roland's bed, taking in what they just witnessed, the familiar scratching noise started again. Only this time, it wasn't coming from under the floorboards. It was coming from with [00:25:00] inside the mattress. They started to feel something worming its way around the springs of the bed.

[00:25:04] And it started out as a gentle kind of murmuring, increasingly building up. More and more energy. So as they cleared the bed, the entire mattress started to violently convulse before suddenly just stopping dead. Then all of a sudden, the edges of the bedspread peeled themselves out from where they were tucked in, and the entire bedspread stood up above the surface of the mattress.

[00:25:27] As if it was being held up with starch. Phyllis then nervously reached out and touched it and instantly it just relaxed and fell perfectly back down onto the mattress. And that was it. The scratching noise continued, stopping shortly after midnight, only to return the next evening. for the next 

[00:25:45] Adam Cox: few weeks.

[00:25:46] But why? Why is someone just like scratching and lifting your bed sheets? 

[00:25:50] Kyle Risi: I don't know. I don't know how these spirits communicate. That's just what we know has happened. At this point, this is not what's in the diary. This is all kind of their account of what happens. Okay. [00:26:00] Father Raymond Bishop isn't in the picture just yet, but this is the information that he had received and he had noted all this down as well.

[00:26:08] Adam Cox: So it's a bit creepy, it's not. Not doesn't sound too negative. They're just maybe, I don't know, unmaking the bed, which is a bit annoying. Oh Adam, 

[00:26:15] Kyle Risi: on contra, we're just at the very beginning of our story. Of course it's going to escalate to a whole new level of bullshit. 

[00:26:20] Adam Cox: Fine. 

[00:26:21] Kyle Risi: So amidst the scratching, that now seems to be a constant nightly occurrence, other strange things started happening around the house too, and it always seemed to revolve around Roland.

[00:26:31] Previously stationary items like fruits, pears and oranges we'll just spontaneously fly through the air. One time, even a Bible flung itself off the bookshelf. 

[00:26:39] Adam Cox: Well, yeah, get rid of that. 

[00:26:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Don't 

[00:26:41] Adam Cox: need that 

[00:26:42] Kyle Risi: around the house. The strange thing is that these activities weren't just confined to the home.

[00:26:46] They seem to follow Roland around. Because one morning at school, his desk had spontaneously and repeatedly slammed itself into another student's desk in the classroom. It was so disruptive that they just ended up sending Roland home, believing that he [00:27:00] was pulling off some kind of elaborate prank. 

[00:27:02] Adam Cox: Oh right, so it's not even confined to their house? This spirit is It's following them about, yeah. 

[00:27:06] Kyle Risi: What did Roland do? So Phyllis and Carl, they didn't know what to think. Like they knew that Roland was upset over Harriet's death and that this was just potentially him acting out as a way of dealing with that grief. But Roland just swore that he wasn't doing it and in some cases his parents had to admit that they couldn't see how Roland was to blame for the strange things that were happening.

[00:27:30] Like one such event was while some relatives were visiting from St. Louis. Roland was just sitting in the heavy armchair in their living room, when in front of the entire family, the armchair just lifted a few inches off the floor, then flipped itself, dumping Roland onto the ground, trapping him underneath.

[00:27:48] Now, obviously, trying to catch him in a lie, his father sat in the same armchair and tried to see if he could flip it himself, but it's just too heavy for him, let alone for, like, Roland. Even [00:28:00] his uncle tried to give it a go, but neither of them could flip the armchair over. 

[00:28:04] But while they were resting with the armchair, A vase had suddenly started levitating off the table before hurling itself across the room and then smashing itself into the opposite wall.

[00:28:15] The entire family just screamed and left the room in terror, like they'd just fled. 

[00:28:21] Adam Cox: If that actually happened Then that would be pretty like, you'd run out the house, right? 

[00:28:26] Kyle Risi: Oh yeah, I would never step foot in that house again. At the same time, it was acknowledged that I'd be homeless and I'd be like, okay, I'll come back in.

[00:28:36] Basically, Adam, it was pretty clear that something was wrong. So over the next few weeks, Roland started also becoming more and more withdrawn. Like he was struggling to sleep at night due to the constant scratching and the footsteps in his room. And he was also starting to look really physically exhausted.

[00:28:53] On the nights where he was able to sleep, Phyllis and Karl would hear him talking loudly in his sleep saying the most horrible things, [00:29:00] which for him was completely out of character. It was at the point now where Karl and Phyllis knew that Roland wasn't just simply acting out, that they needed to get some form of help.

[00:29:10] Adam Cox: What was he saying? 

[00:29:11] Kyle Risi: He would say things a lot about, murder and death. And really horrible, vile things. 

[00:29:17] Adam Cox: Really? 

[00:29:18] Kyle Risi: I don't know what to make of it. 

[00:29:19] Adam Cox: Is this where the inspiration in The Exorcist come from?

[00:29:22] Because obviously the girl, she sits up in bed and she says about her mother sucks. Penises in hell. 

[00:29:29] Kyle Risi: I mean, your mother might suck penises in hell. My mother's donning socks in hell. 

[00:29:34] Adam Cox: No she is not. No she is not. She's drinking gin and tonic in hell. And it's not just in hell that mum sucks penises. 

[00:29:42] Kyle Risi: Say that again.

[00:29:42] Do you want a snap in the face? So basically, they decide to take Roland to see a pediatrician who only ends up giving him the all clear physically. So they refer him to a psychologist who pretty much says the same thing. The only suggestion [00:30:00] is that Roland might be dealing with the trauma. following Harriet's death.

[00:30:04] So at a loss on what to do they consult a Lutheran minister by the name of Miles Schultz who agrees to visit Roland at home where he prayed for Roland and the family but following this the problems inflicted on Roland just seemed to get worse and worse. This is when Father Miles invited Roland and his mother to spend the night at his house.

[00:30:25] Now you might think red flag because he's a minister. I know they don't have the best reputation. Sorry. 

[00:30:29] Adam Cox: Yeah, because if the mint stir is going, yeah, Roland can stay over, but you parents, yeah, you're not needed. I'd be like, well, 

[00:30:36] Kyle Risi: I mean, his mother does come as well, but she does stay in the guest bedroom while they share a bedroom. 

[00:30:41] Adam Cox: Oh. 

[00:30:42] Kyle Risi: Oh, it's twin beds though. So it's fine. 

[00:30:44] Basically, the reason for inviting him to his house was that he wanted to rule out that Roland was pulling a prank. He thought that if Roland wasn't in his own space, then it would be difficult for him to pull any tricks.

[00:30:55] So that night, like I said, Miles and Roland slept in the same room, in separate twin [00:31:00] beds. Good. The red flag is gone. 

[00:31:02] Adam Cox: Just want to make sure this isn't, you know, worse than it should 

[00:31:05] Kyle Risi: be. Rolland's mother is in the guest room. Now, round about midnight, Miles woke up to a rattling noise where Rolland's bed vibrating. So in a panic, he pulled Rolland from it, at which point the bed stopped dead. Miles then placed Rolland in a chair in the corner of the room, which Rolland sat in with his legs pulled up to his chin. 

[00:31:24] While Miles inspected the bed, Roland began to orderly squirm, turning around, he sees that the chair is slowly leaning over further and further, until Roland is just tipped off of the chair, and throughout this, he says that Roland just didn't move, he was just stiff, he was almost like he was in a trance like state.

[00:31:46] So, Miles helps him off the floor, he then dusts him off, he sits in the chair himself to see if he can try and tip it over, but the chair was just too heavy and too low to the ground. 

[00:31:56] Adam Cox: Maybe Roland's just really good at tipping chairs. 

[00:31:58] Kyle Risi: I think so, possibly, I mean if you're a [00:32:00] sceptic then you, it's like he's obviously got this nailed down, right?

[00:32:02] Yeah, he's brilliant. I don't know. So a little while later, Miles lays out two blankets on the floor for Roland to sleep on. He figures that if Roland had been causing these disturbances, then there wasn't much that he could do from the floor. 

[00:32:13] But at 3am, Roland and his blankets, they start sliding across the room, and he is pulled under the bed, at which point his body starts bouncing off the ground and slamming into the metal frame underneath.

[00:32:26] Miles said that his body just seemed to be rigid as he was thrown between the floor and the frame kind of repeatedly. He must have done some serious 

[00:32:32] Adam Cox: damage to his 

[00:32:33] Kyle Risi: face. He did, basically. When Miles pulled him out, Roland was just covered in bloody scratches from the springs and Roland snaps out of his trance and he's just hysterical. So rather than going back to sleep that night, of course they're not gonna want to go back to sleep, they just stayed up until sunrise. 

[00:32:50] But the thing is though, the next morning, Miles has no explanation for what's happening, but he does think that this might be a case of demonic possession of some [00:33:00] sort.

[00:33:00] So this is our first diagnosis that we have that something might be up. It might be some kind of untoward spirit. 

[00:33:06] Adam Cox: You think? Like what child, bangs their body against the bottom of the bed? 

[00:33:11] Kyle Risi: Exactly. It's too difficult for people to explain. Yeah. But he also points out that he wasn't equipped to help.

[00:33:17] Instead, he advises Phyllis to consult a Catholic priest who might know what to do. So, in late February 1949, that's exactly what Carl and Phyllis do. They reach out to a priest named Father Albert Hughes, who at the time was only 29 years old. He agrees to meet with Roland and to assess him. But before taking Roland to see Father Hughes, Roland starts to develop a whole new set of symptoms.

[00:33:42] In addition to the scratching, the shaking and the sleep talking, claw marks are now starting to appear on Roland's body. The way that Phyllis and Carl described these is almost like cat claw marks from like a cat. Even stranger was that some of these scratches looked like they were forming [00:34:00] letters of the alphabet.

[00:34:01] When Roland's appointment with Father Hughes came around. Father Hughes said that the instant that Roland walked into his office, air immediately turned cold. Even Carl and Phyllis were unsettled by how the atmosphere seemed to change upon entering that building. It was a holy building. It was his rectory.

[00:34:20] So if something untoward was inside Roland, it was clearly having an adverse reaction to the environment that it was stepping into. 

[00:34:28] Adam Cox: Or Roland walked through the door, left the door open, and it just got a bit breezy, just saying. 

[00:34:35] Kyle Risi: Okay, fine. Here's that skeptic, ladies and gentlemen. 

[00:34:38] Adam Cox: I'll take it back, I'll take it back.

[00:34:40] Okay, it got cold. 

[00:34:41] Kyle Risi: So according to Father Hughes, it was clear that Roland was giving off some sort of evil aura. He agreed to come and see Roland at the family home where about a week later he was assisting Phyllis in getting Roland ready for bed. When Phyllis went to get Roland a glass of water, Hughes said that [00:35:00] Roland entered a trans like state. His eyes darted open, locking onto him and said in perfect Latin, Oh priest of Christ, you know that I am the devil. Why have you come to this house? 

[00:35:12] Adam Cox: Well, that's creepy. 

[00:35:13] Kyle Risi: That's fucking creepy, man. Hughes felt exactly the same because he was like getting the fuck out of that room knowing without a doubt now that he was 100 percent dealing with some kind of demonic possession. 

[00:35:25] He tells Phyllis and Carl that if his suspicions are correct then he would need to get permission from the local archdiocese to perform an exorcism on The ritual was extremely dangerous and could only be permitted by the church.

[00:35:40] Now he had only ever read about exorcisms in his studies and he knew that the ritual was contained in what the church called the Roman Ritual, which is a comprehensive 58 page guide That was originally written in 1614 in Rome.

[00:35:55] And by the way, Adam, you can look this up and I tell you, this [00:36:00] is real. It outlines all the procedures and the prayers for the various sacraments and blessings and the rituals for conducting an exorcism. It exists. 

[00:36:09] Adam Cox: I can step by step guide. Mm. 

[00:36:12] Kyle Risi: I'll link to this in the show notes. There's a brilliant Wikipedia page that will give you the synopsis of it, but pretty much this is what they're talking about.

[00:36:19] Adam Cox: I find it better with a YouTube video these days to kind of learn like new skills. 

[00:36:23] Kyle Risi: I agree. Yeah. I think we're very visual, audible people rather than having to read. Is there a YouTube video? I'm sure we could find one. Let's do it. Let's do it tonight. I think I'm going to be freaked out. I'm a little bit freaked out now as we're in this dark room recording this. So maybe not. Maybe next week. Can you turn the lights on, Kyle? 

[00:36:42] So when Hughes contacts the Archdiocese for permission, they recommend admitting Roland to Georgetown University Hospital in Washington. We'll be back. This is a Catholic hospital with a strong Jesuit tradition. It exists, and they warn, however, that if Roland was indeed [00:37:00] possessed, the exorcism would be extremely dangerous and they would require strict adherence to the Roman ritual under the care of nuns and other orderlies.

[00:37:07] They also advised Father Hughes against conducting the ritual himself since the guidelines specified that the priest should be of mature years and revered not only for his office but also for his kind of moral qualities. And a 29 year old priest didn't quite fit that kind of description but despite their advice he insisted on doing the ritual himself.

[00:37:31] Adam Cox: So why is an older priest just more experienced, wiser. 

[00:37:36] Kyle Risi: Exactly, he's typically going to be more pious. And more like more regard for human life and the souls and things like that. It was just a recommendation based on what was written in the Roman ritual. 

[00:37:49] So on March the 6th, 1949, after thorough preparations and with obviously Carl and Phyllis's permission, Father Hughes and his team of orderlies [00:38:00] strapped Roland's arms and legs to his hospital bed.

[00:38:03] When everything was ready, he knelt beside Rowland and began reciting the prayers from the Roman Ritual in Latin. Almost immediately, Rowland started to wither like a serpent. He contorted back and forth against his restraints. And as Hughes continued praying, Rowland managed to free one of his arms. He tore off one of the metal springs from the bed frame and he slammed the spring into Hughes's left shoulder, ripping a gash all the way down to his forearm.

[00:38:32] Had to pile on to Rowland just to restrain him, as Father Hughes then just stumbled from the room with blood just pouring from his arm. The ritual just ended and Father Hughes needed to get over 100 stitches in his arm. That is well documented. 

[00:38:47] Adam Cox: Well, he shouldn't have gone forward.

[00:38:49] Yeah. He needed to be older than 29. But that's, so there's documents, um, that this, Father Hughes obviously received stitches and that the boys stabbed him. 

[00:38:59] Kyle Risi: Yeah, the [00:39:00] hospital exists. You can look it up. I believe, I think one of the hospitals might be closed now. I'm not sure if there's this one or another one that they went to, but they all existed. They're all on the record. 

[00:39:09] It was, of course, in this moment that he realised that he should have obviously followed the advice from the Archdiocese. He was not the right person to conduct this ritual. And they were going to need someone more experienced. 

[00:39:20] After this, it was apparent that Father Hughes attempt only seemed to anger whatever was inside Roland. Because over the next few days, things just got worse. Every night, new scratches started appearing on Roland's body. But now, they seemed to be forming coherent letters. To be continued One of the words that appeared on Roland's chest was St. Louis. 

[00:39:41] Phyllis explained to Father Hughes that before the possession began, they believed that they had made contact with her sister in the spirit world.

[00:39:50] And she, thought that the word St. Louis was actually a message from Harriet instructing them to come to St. Louis, where Harriet had lived and obviously practiced as [00:40:00] a spiritualist before, obviously, she died. And perhaps that maybe, There was someone there that could potentially help. Right, 

[00:40:06] Adam Cox: okay. 

[00:40:07] Kyle Risi: And that's where we're going next.

[00:40:09] So I think it's a good time to take a quick break, and when we get back, Roland and his family would finally find the hope that they were potentially looking for.

[00:40:18] So Adam, welcome back. Tell us, where's your mind at this point? Where are you? What are you thinking? 

[00:40:27] Adam Cox: That they should probably just get rid of Roland. 

[00:40:29] Kyle Risi: Do you think? Yeah, send him off to boarding 

[00:40:31] Adam Cox: school.

[00:40:31] Kyle Risi: So I'm assuming you are not buying this at all. 

[00:40:34] Adam Cox: It's quite, compelling. And it's definitely interesting. 

[00:40:37] Kyle Risi: What's the compelling part? Is it the backstory and the fact that this is all from, Father Raymond Bishop's diary. 

[00:40:43] Adam Cox: Yeah, I think because there's an element of truth where it's documented. It's makes me think maybe some of this is true. I just, I don't know. It's, I'm still sceptic, but I'm willing to believe that Roland is alive. I mean, 

[00:40:56] Kyle Risi: well, you could have fooled me. All these jibes and these kind of like [00:41:00] little quib set at my story. 

[00:41:02] How dare you? 

[00:41:05] So Adam, in March of 1949, the family board a train heading west to St. Louis. Now shortly after they arrived, Harriet's daughter approached one of her professors at St. Louis University. This was a guy called Father Raymond Bishop, the priest who would end up keeping the diary that would later be discovered by Thomas Allen in the 1990s.

[00:41:25] She told him everything that was happening to Roland, which of course was something that she had now witnessed firsthand at this point. Based on her description, Raymond thought that this might be what the Vatican would describe as a diabolical possession. But even though Raymond was a priest, he was still an academic and somewhat sceptical.

[00:41:44] So not wanting to jump to any conclusions, he arranged to meet Roland and his family to see what was happening firsthand. And when Raymond arrived at Harriet's home, he started blessing the house. He paid special attention to the bed where Roland was [00:42:00] sleeping, and he would sprinkle that with water, and then he pinned a small crucifix to its pillow.

[00:42:05] Now, around about 11pm that same evening, shortly after Roland went upstairs, screams and thumps erupted from the room. Raymond and the others rushed up to see what was happening, and they found Roland sitting in the middle of his bed, perfectly still, but the mattress was shaking beneath him. Raymond quickly doused him with holy water, 

[00:42:24] which immediately stopped the shaking. But moments later, amidst the confusion, Raymond went downstairs to retrieve his Bible. And as soon as he stepped over the threshold of the room, the mattress began shaking violently again. Now, Roland, at this point, started screaming in agony. And immediately pulled off his pyjama top as if he was on fire, and before everyone's eyes, a zigzag of scratches appeared across his chest, and Raymond said that it looked like something inside him was trying to claw its way out. [00:43:00] Yeesh. 

[00:43:00] As soon as Raymond stepped back over the threshold into the room, everything just calmed down again. So terrified that if Raymond left the room, things would flare up again, Roland just begged him back. To just stay with him for the rest of the night. 

[00:43:16] So by the next day, Raymond realized that he was completely out of his depth. So what he does is he contacts a friend of his. This is another priest at the university, a guy called father William Bowden. When he came to the house, he agreed that some kind of demonic force had taken hold of Roland.

[00:43:36] And so together with Raymond, William started researching for an exorcism. William learned that there are three distinct stages to demonic possession. Infestation, obsession and then the actual possession. 

[00:43:52] Adam Cox: all priests learn about this or is this something where like you do your basic training and everything like that you become a reverend and then [00:44:00] when I don't know this crops up you're like oh I better go find out about exorcism.

[00:44:04] Kyle Risi: So from my understanding The concept of exorcisms is something that they're all aware of. It's written in the Bible in several places that warns people against conversing with spirits and the dangers as to what could happen. They understand and they know about the Roman ritual. It's not something that as a Catholic priest you would use very often because of course demonic possessions don't typically spring up. every week, right? But they are aware, they have these hunches as to what's happening, but in terms of taking action, they have to get explicit permission from the church in order to conduct these exorcisms. 

[00:44:42] Adam Cox: That's interesting, or they have to get like someone special in that's done that, they've gone through specific training. whatever.

[00:44:48] Kyle Risi: I guess it's gonna help if you have got experience doing these but the thing is though this is the new world this is in america so there's probably not that many cases of demonic possessions happening you know what i mean?

[00:45:00] Adam Cox: [00:45:00] I just imagine the training almost like you know when you do uh first aid and you have like an annie doll and you're like And I imagine that you have to, like, I don't know, exercise an anti doll to get through this.

[00:45:11] And you're like shaking it, like banging it against the 

[00:45:13] wall. No, Father Tom, no, no, we don't do that here. We do it like this. Yeah, that's My bad, sorry. 

[00:45:19] Yeah, and just like throwing it out the window, like, yep, problem solved. 

[00:45:22] Kyle Risi: And they've got the doll rigged up to kind of like violently vomit on you.

[00:45:28] Let's see how Father Tom handles this. Tom, I'm gonna say that was a, maybe a four. 

[00:45:33] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:45:34] Kyle Risi: Out of ten. You can't cut off the head. Yeah. That's not how this works. 

[00:45:38] Father Tom, stop having sex with the dummy. This is not how we deal with a sexy, demonically possessed child. Oh god, child. I mean, person, person. Kyle.

[00:45:48] So basically, there's three distinct stages of the Demotic Possession and Infestation is the sort of the general kind of poltergeist activity where objects seemingly on their own accord [00:46:00] without any human intervention Start like moving through the air. There's knocking on walls. They're scratching and footsteps and things like that These are things that we've already seen right?

[00:46:10] William believed that Roland was in the middle stage obsession. He speculated that the levitations and the trance like states that were being inflicted on Roland was evidence of this. So far though, they hadn't seen any indication of the possession stage yet, which is the third stage, which according to their research involves speaking in tongues or like supernatural strength.

[00:46:32] But according to the family and the accounts from Father Hughes, there were certainly precursors to this final stage starting to settle in. And because of this, they knew that they needed to kind of start acting fast if they were going to stop the demon or the entity from taking hold of Roland.

[00:46:49] So Raymond and William, they contact the local archdiocese for permission to perform the exorcism rite. Again, they agree, but with two conditions. First, they [00:47:00] need to keep their work complete. completely confidential. Second, Father William must be the one to conduct the exorcism based on obviously his experience.

[00:47:10] But at this point, William just flat out refuses. He didn't want to be responsible for Roland's soul. He also didn't think that he would be able to handle it being the age that he was. However, the Roman ritual recommended using a priest known for their piety, their prudence, their integrity of life.

[00:47:28] That was William in a nutshell, and he had also been a Jesuit priest since like he was 17 years old. So the archdiocese insisted that if it wasn't Father William, Then there was no one else and that Roland's life would probably be at risk. And so William is backed into a corner and he has no choice if he wanted Roland to live.

[00:47:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. I just had a really weird vision where you're going for like number one, had to be this. Number two, had to be this. Number three, He was allowed to play Happy Days in the background. 

[00:47:58] Kyle Risi: [00:48:00] What? What? 

[00:48:00] Adam Cox: Just like the, the guy that delivers, um, the babies 

[00:48:04] Kyle Risi: from 

[00:48:05] Friends.

[00:48:05] The doctor who delivered, Phoebe's triplets in Friends. 

[00:48:08] Adam Cox: Loved Fonzie. I just imagine that's the guy like, Okay, can you put Happy Days on? Let me exercise. I mean, as 

[00:48:14] Kyle Risi: an evil spirit, I would certainly be perplexed if I'd,manifested myself and there was like, Hey, it's the Fonz! 

[00:48:21] Adam Cox: Monday, Tuesdays, Happy Days.

[00:48:23] And I'd be like Fuck this, I'm out of here. I like how it's like, stop my scratching and go, Oh, Happy Days is on. 

[00:48:28] Kyle Risi: Well, I mean, there is a lot of singing that's going to be happening. 

[00:48:31] Adam Cox: Singing? Yeah. Really? By who? By the demon. They're going to be singing? Okay. It's 

[00:48:37] Kyle Risi: really 

[00:48:37] Adam Cox: creepy. Say more. 

[00:48:38] Kyle Risi: So on Wednesday, March the 16th, Father William, They followed the preparation process laid out in the Roman Ritual. William and Raymond, they prayed, they fasted, they confessed, and then they went off to go see Roland. They had him lie down, and William began praying over him. Basically, in accordance to the Roman Ritual, which You can go and you [00:49:00] can read this.

[00:49:01] They start by calling upon God, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, the arch angels, the holy innocence, the, the saintly, widows, the martyrs, the holy priests. Basically, they're summoning every religious figure to stand with them against the evil that is with Roland. This passage, when I read it, is huge. They're just listing all these names, one after the other, and it goes on and on.

[00:49:24] They're just calling upon them all. Here's the thing. While William invoked each one of these holy figures, Roland's mattress starts to rock. First slowly, but then violently. But William he keeps reciting the prayers in Latin from the Roman ritual. For two hours, they pray. And for two hours, they pray. That bed just shook while Roland just lay on it, drifting in and out of this kind of trans like state. Finally, William reaches the passages where they're intended to kind of address the demon directly. He shouts amongst [00:50:00] all the commotion that's going on in the room, I command you unclean spirit.

[00:50:04] And at that moment, Roland screamed out in pain. His entire body felt like it was burning. And again, he tore open his pajama top just to relieve the agony from the fabric that was physically touching his skin. 

[00:50:18] Adam Cox: Yeah, like, it's almost like scratching him or like pins and 

[00:50:21] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And what they saw was that these red welts started appearing across his stomach.

[00:50:28] And as they continued reciting the prayers, Roland just continued to kind of wither in pain. And each time Father William said the word Lord or God, fresh welts would just appear on Roland's body until he was just literally covered. William then commanded the demon to tell him its name, and when it would be leaving Roland's body.

[00:50:49] As he repeated this over and over, four letters started to form as scratches over his chest, which Roland, in a trans like state, tried to desperately hide from William [00:51:00] and Raymond from seeing. 

[00:51:01] Despite this, though, through all the rithering, they could see that the letter spelled out the word H E L L. The entity was from hell, Adam. 

[00:51:10] Adam Cox: Or were they just trying to say hello? And he just, if we didn't see the O. 

[00:51:15] Kyle Risi: That's so rude! 

[00:51:18] Adam Cox: I don't know, it's just a bit presumptuous to say that this demon is from hell.

[00:51:22] Kyle Risi: Okay, let's see what happens next, right? So William then shouted again, Tell me your name and when you will leave. And then two more letters started to manifest themselves. Again, with Roland desperately trying to hide Then from the priest, the letters G and O could be seen, and then on his right leg, the letter X, which is obviously the Roman numeral for 10, appeared.

[00:51:45] Phyllis, again, of course, in the midst of everything that was happening, she screamed that the Scratchers were Harriet's doing who had always said that the spirits could see into the future and this was Harriet letting William know that they had to continue for 10 [00:52:00] more hours or potentially days to ensure that the demon is exorcised from Roland's body.

[00:52:05] Adam Cox: If Harriet is like Obviously family. But she's scratching his body. I know, right? Is there not another way that she could have communicated this? Well, 

[00:52:13] Kyle Risi: this is the thing. When I was thinking about this, I thought that potentially she just couldn't communicate with Roland through this Ouija board. She just couldn't because he never made contact with her.

[00:52:23] Right. When he was playing with his Ouija board, he had, I think, inadvertently let in another demon of some kind. And I think in her desperation, because she was unable to communicate with him, I think the knocking on the ground was her. And I just think that this was the only way that she could, in desperation, communicate with them, to warn them.

[00:52:46] She was the one who wrote the word St. Louis on his body. She is the one who's telling them. That it's gonna take 10 days of this bullshit. Keep going, motherfuckers. 10 days. She believed that Roland's attempt to try and conceal [00:53:00] the writing, Was the demon trying to stop William and Raymond from knowing this information, hoping that they would just give up long before?

[00:53:08] So Raymond wrote in his diary about how William insisted that he didn't think that he would even have the strength to put Roland through 10 more hours of this, let alone potentially 10 days. However, according to the diary, he convinces William to keep going for the sake of Roland's soul, to which William is forced to agree, and they just go back to praying.

[00:53:29] 10 hours of praying? 

[00:53:30] Adam Cox: That's at a minimum. 

[00:53:31] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's at a minimum. It's not 10 hours. They've got to go for 10 days and then some more. Hang on, so what about toilet 

[00:53:37] Adam Cox: breaks? Do they have to like, like, you cover me, I'm just gonna go for a poo, I'll be back. Ha ha 

[00:53:43] Kyle Risi: ha, shit! Or do 

[00:53:44] Adam Cox: they have to pray whilst they're pooing?

[00:53:46] Well, I mean, Rowland certainly did. 

[00:53:49] Kyle Risi: And what about 

[00:53:49] Adam Cox: like, 

[00:53:49] Kyle Risi: sleeping? 

[00:53:50] Adam Cox: Do they sleep? 

[00:53:51] Kyle Risi: I mean, they do. So a lot of this happens at night. Uh huh. So by this point, Roland is near exhaustion. He keeps thrashing. The others had to hold him [00:54:00] down on the bed, but Roland just spat gobs of saliva at everyone. And the only thing that seemed to kind of suppress the demon for a short burst of time was dousing Roland with holy water and making the sign of the cross over him.

[00:54:11] And this went on for hours until 5 a. m. When Father William recited what he hoped Would be the final prayer in the roman ritual hoping to banish the demon finally So he shouted I cast you out in the name of jesus and for a moment Roland just lay still. His body was calm, almost as if like he'd fallen asleep. According to Raymond's diary, they just stood there. They weren't sure like what had happened. It just stopped abruptly. 

[00:54:40] Adam Cox: Like did we do it? 

[00:54:41] Kyle Risi: But is that it? Can we go? So after a few minutes of silence, Roland just sat up and he began singing. He sang way down upon the Swanee river, far, far away.

[00:54:52] And then he stretched out his arms and he swayed to the music. And as he sung, he got louder and faster until it was just gibberish. And [00:55:00] then he just burst out laughing. And the demon was now speaking through Rowlet. And it was now clear that he was now in the final stage of possession.

[00:55:09] Adam Cox: Right, it feels like it's taken a long time just to get to this point. Like, can you not fast track this possession? Because surely he'd be like, can I just, take control of this body now? I 

[00:55:17] Kyle Risi: guess he just, I don't know, I can't pretend I know how possessions work. I mean, I'm not even sure I believe them.

[00:55:22] So therefore, he's in a position to explain how they work. But the problem was that they had now reached the point where they'd finished all the pages in the Roman ritual. So William just was like, fuck. So he just flipped back to the previous section and just continued to pray.

[00:55:36] Exactly. And this went on until 7am when Rowling just gradually began to settle. It was almost as if whatever was inside of him just got fucking bored and pissed off. 

[00:55:46] Adam Cox: Yeah. Well, he's just got tired. It's like, I can't keep up with this. 

[00:55:49] Kyle Risi: Skeptical. So father William and Raymond, they try to comprehend what had happened.

[00:55:54] If Phyllis was right, and Harriet was indeed the spirit who was instructing them to continue for another ten days, they [00:56:00] doubted, Roland would survive. 

[00:56:02] The following night, Thursday, they prepared for round two. Almost immediately, Roland fell into a trance like state. Sometimes he sang, sometimes he spat, but the whole time, he just thrashed with this kind of unnatural strength.

[00:56:16] Wow. For the next seven nights, Roland's exorcism followed just the same pattern, right? William and Raymond arrived each evening and battled until the early hours, but each night the demon just grew more furious. It kept spitting, kept swearing. He would often masturbate as they recited the prayers at him and he would just lose control of his bladder and he was constantly just wetting the bed by this point.

[00:56:40] Adam Cox: Oh, that room must 

[00:56:41] Kyle Risi: stink. It must have stunk with all the sexing, the masturbating. You know when there's a teenager in a room when it smells of, you know. 

[00:56:49] Adam Cox: The fact that he's doing that in front of the priest and He 

[00:56:52] Kyle Risi: knows no shame. This is how you know it's real. Because no dignified human being would do that.

[00:56:57] Adam Cox: I don't think so, you're right. No. I'm a believer [00:57:00] now.

[00:57:02] Kyle Risi: Here's the crazy thing. When Rowland sang, it was sometimes clear It was just the demon's attempt to drown out the sound of William's prayers and these were songs no one had ever heard. Sometimes they were in English, sometimes they were in Latin. Often they were just gibberish, but when they were sung, they were sung in perfect pitch, which Roland did not have.

[00:57:21] Interesting. Raymond also noted in his diary that the most unsettling aspect was how the entity would grin and laugh at them, almost mocking them like it was playing a game. 

[00:57:32] Adam Cox: Okay. 

[00:57:33] Kyle Risi: By the ninth night, March the 24th, William had decided to move Roland to his rectory, hoping that the holy setting might help expel the demon. It turned out though, to be one of the worst nights of the exorcism. 

[00:57:47] The presence of the holy building only agitated the demon even more and it took out its fury on Roland's body. It taunted everyone in the room, warning one of them, you will be with me in hell in [00:58:00] 1957. And what year is this? 1949. So it's predicting its death, I guess.

[00:58:07] Around 2. 30am that night, Raymond says that the demon spoke directly to William himself, saying, You like doing this. You don't want this to end. I like it too. And then Roland fell asleep, and then the session was over for the night. 

[00:58:23] This was at 2. 30 when all the other sessions went on till the early hours in the morning. This was the worst night, but it also ended really abruptly. 

[00:58:34] Adam Cox: That's a weird thing to say as well. It is a really weird thing to say. I'd be like, no, I really, I want to get back to my family. 

[00:58:40] Kyle Risi: Well, I mean, he's a Jesuit priest. He doesn't have a family, but And he's already technically at home, right? It's his rectory. So it's like, okay. Oh, maybe he does like it then, I don't know. So despite being in the rectory, there was no sign that the demon was ready to leave. It seemed to have fully commandeered Roland's body, but they just continued to press on. They prepared for [00:59:00] the 10th night of the exorcism and that evening, Father William delivered his prayers and the evocations with even more determination than ever like they're anticipating that this is potentially going to be the final night especially how abruptly the previous night had ended, right? 

[00:59:14] But according to the diary, like tonight was really different. Like normally when William used the words God or Lord, Roland would have some kind of physical reaction. But this time the demon didn't really react. There was no taunting. There was no urinating. Roland just simply squirmed almost in silence until he fell asleep. And William and Raymond, they kind of expected there to be some kind of weird climax, but the night just ended calmly.

[00:59:37] Adam Cox: Like, that's it? That's all you got? Yeah. Come on, bitch, let's go. 

[00:59:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I came here for a fight. And they did wonder, they wondered if this was the end and that the demon had just drifted away. And if so, why?

[00:59:48] the next evening, on the Saturday, William tested whether or not Roland could sleep through the night without any disturbance. And he did! Adam, nothing happened. Roland slept peacefully. Sunday was the same. [01:00:00] By Monday, William thought, like, well, that's it. It feels like it's all over. Maybe it's safe to send Roland home and sleep in his own bed. I said 10 days, right? Yeah. I mean, it was over. I mean, when you're talking to a demon and a spirit from the other realm, right?

[01:00:15] Like You're going to trust that. Yeah, exactly. 

[01:00:17] So again, they sent him home. And again, he slept through the night without any issues right up until Thursday night. But on Thursday evening, Roland told his mum that he wasn't feeling very well. So Phyllis helped bath him and they prepared him for bed. And just as she was about to leave his room, Roland begged her to stay and ask for everyone else to come upstairs as well and sit with him.

[01:00:37] So Phyllis gathered his cousins, uncle Carl, and his grandmother, and they all just sat on his bed just chatting amongst themselves. But then suddenly out of nowhere, Roland's eyes just snapped shut. And he seemed to enter into another trans like state.

[01:00:52] His finger started moving across the bedsheet as if it was writing. And then he said in a loud tone, It will stay for ten [01:01:00] days, but will return after four. If you become a Catholic, it will stay away forever. If not, Rowland's soul will forever belong to hell. 

[01:01:09] Adam Cox: So if he becomes a Catholic, It'll be fine. 

[01:01:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[01:01:12] Adam Cox: So is this a recruitment drive? I think it's to say 

[01:01:15] Kyle Risi: basically that he needs to be baptized, but why would the demon say that? So there's speculation like that this message is clearly from Aunt Harriet. 

[01:01:23] Adam Cox: Right, okay. 

[01:01:24] Kyle Risi: So when Father William, he hears about this, he immediately starts making arrangements to have Roland baptised to make the exorcism stick for good.

[01:01:34] So on the Friday, plans for Roland's baptism are ready. They help Roland into the car but during the car ride Roland falls into another trance and out of nowhere he lunges from the back seat he grabs the steering wheel from his uncle and he veers the car off the road but just in time his uncle manages to pull on the handbrake which stops the car from slamming into a building and then Roland just turns to his mother Phyllis and starts [01:02:00] strangling it takes both Roland's uncle and his dad, Carl, to pull him off of her.

[01:02:05] And they had to just hold Roland down while Phyllis drove them the rest of the way. 

[01:02:09] Adam Cox: That's creepy. 

[01:02:10] Kyle Risi: It is creepy. Once they get inside the church, it's almost impossible to baptize Roland. Whatever was inside of him was just constantly fighting back to the point that it takes him four attempts to do it.

[01:02:22] When that was done though, the final stage of the baptism was to get Roland to do his first communion. which involves saying the sacraments and then swallowing the host wafer. But even this was just nearly impossible because he just kept vomiting every time they're trying to put it into his mouth. 

[01:02:38] Adam Cox: It's like, um, giving, a flea medicine to a cat. you have to shove it in and then you have to, rub their throat until they swallow. And even then you have to keep a close eye because you find it spat out on the floor elsewhere.

[01:02:47] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's essentially it. They were dealing with a cat. 

[01:02:50] Adam Cox: Yeah. Satan is a cat. They should have, just make sure, keep the jaw shut. Just really rub on his chin. But I'm fine. Terrifying, Adam. Terrifying.

[01:02:59] Kyle Risi: Here's the [01:03:00] crazy thing, though. As soon as he did finally swallow the wafer, Roland just sank into a lucid calm state, like he was calm enough for them to take him back to the rectory to perform the final exorcism on him. So when they reached the part of the ritual, when William asked the demon what day and what hour it would depart, new Roman numeral for the number 16 appeared on his leg, meaning April the 18th, because that was 16 days from then. And again, William thought there is no way that If we have to do this for another 16 days that he is going to make it, he barely made it through 10 days, let alone 16.

[01:03:36] They had no choice, and so for the next two weeks, every night was scheduled to do 16 more exorcisms. And Roland went through 16 more of these, and his body would just erupt in painful bloody lesions, which always disappeared by the morning. 

[01:03:52] Adam Cox: I was going to say otherwise he must have been a mess.

[01:03:54] Yeah. No, no, like scars or anything. They just, they just heal. 

[01:03:58] Kyle Risi: Each time he fought, he [01:04:00] cursed, he squirmed, he contorted. One of the people that Thomas Allen interviewed when he was doing his research, that's the author who went on to kind of write the book Possessed. He said that Roland's stomach had distended and his features were just so distorted by this point that he just looked like a completely different person. They couldn't believe it was the same young boy. Finally though, they reach April the 18th, the day that the demon was meant to leave and as before it was grueling. Roland would drift in and out of a trance and when he did he would just erupt with rage. Finally, Father William reaches the most powerful prayers that address the demon directly, commanding it to leave. And when he recited those prayers, Roland's body just twisted and arched more intensely than ever before, contorting to such an extreme that his shoulders nearly touched the soles of his feet.

[01:04:52] How does that even happen? 

[01:04:53] Adam Cox: He's like he's just compressed or turned into I don't know, contortioned, 

[01:04:56] Kyle Risi: Yeah, this thing has been horrible to poor Roland's body. [01:05:00] But then around about 1045pm, while deep in prayer, everything just went quiet, and a new voice emerged from Roland, and it was deep, and it said, Satan, Satan, I am Saint Michael, and I command you, Satan, to leave the body in the name of Domineus.

[01:05:17] And do you know what, Adam? In that instant, Roland's body, according to the diary, just fell back against the mattress, where it twisted there for a few minutes, and then it stopped, and in a weak voice, eventually, after a few minutes later, Roland said, he's gone, and he was. William and the other priests could feel that Roland was right. They sensed that release of the evil presence that had been so consistent around him over the last few weeks. 

[01:05:44] Adam Cox: So how long has this taken? Like 16 plus another 10 days, then four days of rest. And then 

[01:05:49] Kyle Risi: you've got the months prior as well. Yeah. That's a long time. And so Adam, for the next few weeks, Father William kept an eye on Roland's recovery and with each passing day, it seemed to be clear to them that the [01:06:00] exorcism had finally taken hold and it was over.

[01:06:03] Like a month later, Roland, Phyllis and Carl, they all returned back to Maryland and William stayed true to his word and he kept the details of the exorcism a secret. Like he sent Father Bishop's diary, and log to the local archdiocese, and that's where it had been kept and used to assist in future exorcisms.

[01:06:20] We're not aware if it ever was used in the future exorcisms. The, belief is that it just got lost in the archives over the years. Yeah. As for Miles Schultz, you remember him, he was the Lutheran minister who'd first tried conducting the exorcism on Roland. Well, he didn't exactly keep the event secret because, of course, in August of 1950, he started to give lectures on what he experienced early on in Roland's life.

[01:06:46] Exorcism. He was obviously a man very interested in parapsychology and he felt like it was important to kind of share what he had seen. It was actually those lectures, Adam, that attracted the attention from the media. Their [01:07:00] reporting is what directly inspired author William Peter Blatley to write his novel. And as we know, that was then made into the film, The Exorcist in 1973. 

[01:07:09] Adam Cox: Right. So that's where it all sort of came from those lectures. 

[01:07:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah. In the wake of obviously all the publicity, the Catholic church ordered an official inquiry into Roland's exorcism. The question they wanted to answer was like, was he actually possessed? And according to the inquiry. The answer was no. Then what? I know, they felt that all the details of Roland's story could easily be explained by some kind of psychosomatic disorder and some kind of kinesis action that we don't yet understand but is not necessarily supernatural in nature.

[01:07:45] But Adam, all that tells us is that we don't actually know what happened, but what they are pretty sure of is that it just wasn't a demon. 

[01:07:52] Adam Cox: It's just a whole bout of attention seeking. 

[01:07:55] Kyle Risi: Who knows? In Thomas Allen's book, he heavily questions, obviously, the church's conclusion. [01:08:00] Like where he says, if it wasn't possession, what else could explain some of these things? There were obviously dozens of witnesses who saw what happened to Roland, both in Maryland and in St. Louis. All of them had no reason to lie. And they had never seen Raymond's diary entries beforehand. What they said closely corroborated. what was in there and each other's story. 

[01:08:24] Some psychologists, however, think that possession is simply like a crisis of the mind and not of faith. Basically, they're saying that people who feel like they've been possessed have a history of maybe childhood trauma of some kind that is manifesting itself in this way.

[01:08:42] But if this was a manifestation of trauma, why was it cured by an exorcism? And why did it seem to just stop suddenly? Because like, for weeks, Roland underwent these sessions, and they were agony for them. And exorcism isn't comparable to therapy or [01:09:00] talking, right? If anything, it would make these things fucking worse.

[01:09:03] Adam Cox: Maybe Roland was like, you know what? There's three weeks I've got this priest sleeping in my room. 

[01:09:08] Kyle Risi: And he hasn't touched me once! 

[01:09:10] Adam Cox: Yeah, he's you know what, I'm done. I can't keep up the charade. Do you reckon? I don't know. I think, the convulsions, I guess the swearing and all sorts, you could kinda see that someone could potentially put that on, or it could be linked to trauma maybe.

[01:09:24] I guess the whelps and stuff like that, that's the only thing I'm not quite sure. How did the scars appear and then disappear? Exactly. That just feels Like that's unexplained. 

[01:09:32] Kyle Risi: It is for sure. I mean there is another possible diagnosis including childhood Schizophrenia, it's rare, but it is possible but symptoms of schizophrenia don't just suddenly disappear as they did in Roland's case You know what? I mean? There are still some other unanswered questions around how Roland could suddenly develop perfect pitch but only while in this trance like state. 

[01:09:54] Also, what caused those red welts, as you said, on the body to appear and then disappear the following day? [01:10:00] And also, how do you explain the moving objects?

[01:10:03] Now, there is obviously no clear answers to any of this, but one thing to consider is this. The Bible warns against communicating with spirits in different chapters like Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, and 2 Corinthians. It goes as far as saying that anyone who's been in contact with spirits should be stoned to death.

[01:10:22] So that's implying that there is a long history of bad shit happening when people talk to goddamn spirits. Now, when Rowland used the Ouija board, maybe he did reach some kind of other entity other than just Aunt Harriet, right? Perhaps some kind of evil force that we just don't understand.

[01:10:42] Another priest, Father Herbert Thurston, told Thomas Allen when he was being interviewed that it is possible that there may be natural forces involved which are not yet known to us. Perhaps in the same way that electricity was completely unknown to us. to like the Greeks. And that's probably just only a matter of time before we understand what it was.

[01:10:59] But [01:11:00] also Thomas Allen also managed to contact Walter Holleran. Now he was a priest who at the time was still in training and was also present at all of the exorcism sessions. By the way, you can obviously, as I said, you can look up all these different names and read about their experiences and their lives. It's truly remarkable that these people exist on the record. 

[01:11:18] But Thomas asked Holleran if he thought that Roland was truly possessed or not. And instead of answering the question, Holleran just recalled a conversation that he had with Father Bode inseveral years before. where he asked Father William what he thought about the official report that was made by the Catholic Church where they said it wasn't a demonic possession.

[01:11:40] And William just replied, like, what did it matter? Like, whether the Catholic Church backed the claim that Roland was possessed or not, people were going to agree or disagree regardless. All that matters is that they know what had happened. So I think they're happy to just continue forward with everyone maybe. Denying that it happened [01:12:00] because they inside know what really happened because it is a matter of faith, isn't it? 

[01:12:04] Adam Cox: I guess so. It's a weird one. It feels like For me the skepticism still applies But what's interesting is the I guess what you say is there's a number of people that corroborate the story Yeah, and so what are they actually corroborating?

[01:12:17] Is it like what specific events because That feels if they've never seen the diary, unless they all made a pact, like, oh, let's come up with a story. Could have done, yeah. Then that's, there's something obviously behind this, whether it's been elaborated or exaggerated over time, I don't know, but maybe something went on.

[01:12:35] Kyle Risi: And these are just words, right? When people say, oh, they corroborated the diary, you're 100 percent spot on. What specifically are they corroborating? 

[01:12:44] Adam Cox: That the priests went to the house, maybe there was an issue of some kind. But me, it weren't necessarily a demonic thing. It's true. 

[01:12:51] Kyle Risi: It's true. As for Roland himself after the exorcism He lived a relatively normal life.

[01:12:56] He ended up studying to be an engineer and he [01:13:00] actually worked at NASA for nearly 40 years. And over his career, he contributed to the Apollo missions. Oh, really? Working, yeah. Working on heat resistant technology for space shuttles. And again, you can go look him up. Like his life is really cool.

[01:13:13] But throughout most of his life, he'd always been really anxious about his past and what had happened to him and whether or not that would be discovered, especially when the film was released in 1973, because of course he works for NASA, right? So there's a, an anxiety around that. But Roland only passed away in 2020.

[01:13:30] Not long ago then. Yeah, he had a stroke shortly after his 86th birthday. And what's nuts about the story is that it is everywhere. Yeah. I can't speak for, obviously, the authenticity of its details, but it is widely accepted that these are the events that inspired the novel and the film. dismissed this, but the discovery of this diary in the church archives in the 1990s, That, to me, makes the story somewhat credible, or for people [01:14:00] to stop and just kind of, okay, let's look into this a little bit more.

[01:14:02] Adam Cox: So when the movie came out, did they ever, promote it as if, based on a true story or events? 

[01:14:09] Kyle Risi: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[01:14:10] Adam Cox: Then, was that a marketing thing? Ploy it 

[01:14:12] Kyle Risi: could have been it's only gonna add to the marketing, isn't 

[01:14:14] Adam Cox: it? Yeah, but then I'm just trying to work out the diary.

[01:14:16] So how that plays a part? I'm not quite sure but I'm just wondering if this was all hype that engineered But you've got to 

[01:14:23] Kyle Risi: remember that the film got released in 1973 The diary was only discovered in the 1990s long after the film Was a box office smash hit, right? Mm. Seems to come out of nowhere in isolation of everything else.

[01:14:37] So it's I see what you're getting at. You're trying to draw a parallel between this film and what happened with the Blair Witch, right? Where it was shot in this kind of, in a clever way, as a documentary style in order to try and add credibility to it. In a smart way, a smart marketing person might say, Oh, we released this film.

[01:14:54] We found this diary. Oh look, it's got all these details. Maybe they decided not to use it in the end. [01:15:00] Was there ever an exorcist sequel? 

[01:15:02] Adam Cox: think there's been a few, yeah. When did they come out? 

[01:15:05] Kyle Risi: don't know, Adam. Because if 

[01:15:06] Adam Cox: they came out in, say, 1991 Interesting. 

[01:15:10] Kyle Risi: I don't know. Okay. But Adam, that is the story of the exorcism and the events that inspired the

[01:15:18] Exorcist. 

[01:15:19] Adam Cox: That was definitely creepy. and I guess, I still don't know. I feel like there's definitely some element of truth maybe there. But something has been twisted in the past.I have just found out something. 

[01:15:33] Kyle Risi: What's that? 

[01:15:34] Adam Cox: So the Exorcist 3 came out in 1990.

[01:15:36] The Exorcist 3 came out in 1990. So, I don't want to like, just say that there's a bit more of a marketing ploy here. 

[01:15:43] Kyle Risi: You've just fucking shat on my story, you son of a bitch! 

[01:15:48] Adam Cox: I mean, you could just cut this out, 

[01:15:49] Kyle Risi: but 

[01:15:49] Adam Cox: No, no, it can stay. 

[01:15:51] Kyle Risi: But that's a good point that you made there. 

[01:15:54] Adam Cox: But hey, What did Roland say about it in his years, at NASA?

[01:15:58] Did he ever refer back to [01:16:00] it? I think 

[01:16:00] Kyle Risi: he just always desperately tried to keep those two parts separate. There are some also accounts that he was a bit of a bully. So that they try to paint a picture that he could have been plausibly responsible for this hoax, essentially.

[01:16:16] Adam Cox: Interesting. 

[01:16:16] Kyle Risi: I don't 

[01:16:17] Adam Cox: know, I believe it. I 

[01:16:18] Kyle Risi: enjoyed researching it because I got myself a little bit scared and haven't been scared like that for a long time. Yeah. Since last week. It's 

[01:16:24] Adam Cox: true, you did come up to me going, oh, 

[01:16:26] Kyle Risi: this is 

[01:16:26] Adam Cox: scary.

[01:16:27] Kyle Risi: I did. Um, I mean, I was sitting in this office researching it and I was freaked out and I had to just shut my laptop. And I put my laptop in my bag and go, Can't hurt me now. 

[01:16:37] Adam Cox: I'm going to start scratching the floorboards tonight. Don't you dare! Pacing up and down. Or write something on my chest.

[01:16:44] Oh god, or turn 

[01:16:45] Kyle Risi: over in the middle of the night and go, Kyle, you know I'm the devil? Why have you come to this bedroom? 

[01:16:51] Adam Cox: I'm gonna write Deliveroo on my chest and then 

[01:16:53] Kyle Risi: Deliveroo? 

[01:16:54] Adam Cox: Yeah, because then I'll be like, oh, we better order demon's gonna kill you. 

[01:16:59] Kyle Risi: It's normally me asking [01:17:00] for the Deliveroo, not you.

[01:17:01] Adam Cox: Anyway, 

[01:17:02] Kyle Risi: should we wrap 

[01:17:02] Adam Cox: up? Let's do 

[01:17:03] Kyle Risi: it. 

[01:17:03] And that wraps up another journey into the fascinating and the intriguing on the compendium. If today's episode tickled your curiosity, then don't forget to hit that follow button on your favorite podcasting app. It makes the world of difference when you do. 

[01:17:17] And for our diehard listeners, next week's episode is waiting for you right on our Patreon. And it's completely free of charge. 

[01:17:24] If you're hungry for more, then you can join us certified freaks tier to unlock an entire universe of unreleased episodes, enjoy exclusive content and get sneak peeks as to what's coming up next. We'd love to have you join our growing community.

[01:17:39] New episodes drop every Tuesday, and until then, remember, if your furniture starts floating, it might be time to cancel game night with a Ouija board. 

[01:17:47] Adam Cox: Or put down that crack pipe, because clearly you're seeing things. Oh, here 

[01:17:51] Kyle Risi: we go, Mr. Skeptic. 

[01:17:52] See you next time. 

[01:17:53] Bye. [01:18:00]