The Compendium Podcast

The Titanic Part 1: The People, The Passions, The Legend!

• Kyle Risi and Adam Cox • Episode 67

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In this episode of The Compendium, we're jumping onboard the highly requested Titanic! This is the first episode of our two-part series, where we delve into the ambitious conception of the RMS Titanic and the enduring stories of its passengers and crew that make this Titanic story unforgettable.

Today, you'll learn about key figures like J.P. Morgan and Bruce Ismay, whose dreams and ambitions led to the construction of what was then the largest and most luxurious ship ever built. We'll explore the history and timeline of the Titanic, from its launch in Southampton to its ill-fated maiden voyage destined for New York.

We also bring to life the experiences of the Titanic's passengers and crew, from the elite millionaires in first class to the hopeful immigrants in third class.

Join us as we uncover the artifacts and tales that survived, and prepare to load all the luggage and passengers onboard as we get ready for the Titanic's maiden voyage in episode 2.


We give you the Compendium, but if you want more, then check out these great resources:

1. "A Night to Remember" by Walter Lord
2. "Titanic" Wikipedia
3. "Titanic: The Tragedy Begins" The rest is history
4. “The official Titanic Museum” website
5. "Titanic” by James Cameron

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[EPISODE 67] The Titanic Part 1: The People, The Passions, The Legend!


Kyle Risi: But because the train is much longer than expected the others had to wait and wait and wait and finally when the train passed they Rushed across to the dock, but it was too late.

Kyle Risi: The gangway was being closed So they shouted over at the officer to kind of let them through but again, like I said, it was too late They just refused calling them unreliable and untrustworthy and then they gestured over to some of the standby crew to take their place.

Kyle Risi: And so those four guys missed their call and five days later, all those standby crew would be dead. Wow. 

Kyle Risi: Welcome to the compendium and assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. We are a weekly writer podcast where each week I tell Adam Cox all about a topic I think he'll find both fascinating and intriguing.

Kyle Risi: We dive into stories pulled from the darker corners of true crime, the annals of your old unread history books, and the who's who of extraordinary people. We give you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. I'm of course your host this week, Kyle Recy. 

Adam Cox: And I'm your co host Adam Cox.

Kyle Risi: And in today's compendium, we are diving into an assembly of oceanic opulence and untold tales. 

Adam Cox: Ooh, this feel like I might know this one. What do you reckon, Adam? Well, there's no more opulence on the ocean than surely a giant, like, cruise ship. And I'm thinking the most famous cruise ship in the world.

Adam Cox: Well, in history, I think, is the Titanic, right? 

Kyle Risi: You're correct. And of course, I'm not really that surprised that you didn't get it this week. Because, of course, as you know, this has been a really highly requested episode from our listeners as well. 

Adam Cox: It's true. People really want to know about this story.

Kyle Risi: Even after all these years, people are still deeply interested in it. I was, like, really struggling with, you know, Like what angle should we take? And the thing is though when you think about the titanic like for you, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

Adam Cox: Uh, it sinks. Ooh, okay. I 

Kyle Risi: was kind of hoping for more, but yes, it does sink. But of course, like it's the grandeur of the ship. It's the luxury of first class. It's the events that kind of like led up to that fateful night when the Titanic obviously came head to head with the iceberg in the middle of the Atlantic.

Kyle Risi: But the truth is, Adam, is that the Titanic wasn't just a marvel of engineering and an event that ended in tragedy. It was quite literally a window into what the world was like in 1912 Gilded Age and this has all brought to life through the lives of the people that were on board this gigantic ship.

Kyle Risi: And it's through their ambitions and their dreams for a better life that we get this insight into what the world was like. 

Kyle Risi: So this is the first episode of Of a two part episode series. Another two parter? Another two What was the last two parter that we did? That was Amanda Knox. That's it. That was a while back.

Kyle Risi: But yes, this is a two parter episode on the Titanic. And the reason for that is just because it's such a massive story.

Kyle Risi: And so in this first episode we'll dive into the origins of the Titanic, we'll explore its ambitious conception, its construction and the preparation for its maiden voyage. 

Kyle Risi: Then in the heart of this first episode we will look at the passengers and the crew and we'll bring to life the experiences of the elite millionaires, the second class travelers and the hopeful migrants in third class. And then of course we'll touch upon some of the crew that were on board as well And what life was like for them. 

Kyle Risi: And then in the second episode, which will be next week We won't just gloss over the major events. We'll actually step onto the titanic and set sail across the ocean reliving the journey up to the moment that it collided with that iceberg and then we will dive into the aftermath examining the legacy and the tragedy that this story left behind.

Kyle Risi: So I want you to prepare yourself for an epic journey as we navigate through, the extraordinary tale of the Titanic. 

Adam Cox: Cool, this is, this sounds exciting. You've really built this up. Have I? Yeah. 

Kyle Risi: I'm, I'm so glad. I'm so excited because it is just the people that make this story so incredible.

Adam Cox: It feels like, obviously, Titanic is an iconic movie. This could be the iconic podcast of Titanic story. 

Kyle Risi: I mean, this is heavily, heavily, heavily based. on the Titanic movie. Oh, 

Adam Cox: okay.

Kyle Risi: But it's not three hours. No, it's not three hours. It's going to be a long one, hence why we split it into two episodes. But yeah, I'm so excited because, like, the people are just so incredible.

Kyle Risi: But what we'll do, because this is a two parter, and because, of course, we now have a Patreon. Thank you very much for the one subscriber that we have even before we properly launched it. So they managed to find us somehow. 

Adam Cox: There's a few more now, just so we know. 

Kyle Risi: There is a few more now, but, listening to this one and you really want to get your teeth into the maiden voyage of the Titanic you can hop over to our Patreon Patreon. And, yeah, listen to it free, of course.

Kyle Risi: Before we kick anything off, as we always do at the beginning of an episode.

Adam Cox: Unless you're one of those people that doesn't like all the latest things.

Kyle Risi: What, like Megan Nelly? From wherever she was from. Shut up, Megan. 

Adam Cox: No, it's fair enough. If you don't like it, it's why we always put the sort of skip to the main story in our show notes. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, but everyone wants to listen to all the latest things, right? 

Adam Cox: Okay, well let's get on with it then. 

Kyle Risi: This is a segment of our show where we catch up on all the week's happenings, share a quick tidbit, strange fact, or laugh at a bit of weird news from the past week. Adam, it's going to be your turn to go first this week, so what have you got for us? 

Adam Cox: Thanks. So, um, have you ever gone to a museum and ever wondered that it might be just missing something? There is a glaring absence of fossilised poo? 

Kyle Risi: It's not something that's often crossed my mind. No? No, but I'm really fascinated by fossilised poo. It's called like coprolite, isn't it? 

Adam Cox: Coprolite, that's the technical term for it, yes. Yeah. Well, there's one guy called George Franson in Arizona, he did sort of spot that there is a, there is a missing opportunity here in these museums to have some fossilized poo. Okay. And he's got the largest collection of fossilized poo in the world that he's decided to open up a museum to show it off. 

Kyle Risi: I do know about this guy, actually. 

Adam Cox: Do you know what he called his museum? 

Kyle Risi: Um, I have no idea. 

Adam Cox: Poosium. 

Kyle Risi: Poosium, I did know that. Because the UK now have their own poo museum. Do we? Yeah, and it's opened up really recently and they've actually loaned The UK Pooh Museum, some of his coprolite because we were missing, well, they just aren't on a line. We're missing some poo. 

Adam Cox: But yeah, he's apparently been doing this for quite a while. Um, it was, he was 18, uh, during a visit to rock and fossil shop in Utah. and he saw his first fossilized poo and he hasn't looked back since. Dan and Phil laugh Dan and Phil laugh And so, yeah, a few decades later, he's managed to collect, around about 8, 000 pieces of fossilized poo which you can go to this museum in Arizona. It's free to enter and you can look at all this Fossilized poo and I think one of the biggest bits of poo he has it's around about two feet long from some carnivore 

Kyle Risi: know what the thing is though? It's probably not a normal poo for a carnivore of their size It's he's probably just been because this is gonna be really Topical for my all the latest things, but he's probably been at his girlfriend's house and he's like new relationship He's kept it all in and then like he's like, okay. Yeah, I'll see you next week And then he's left and he's like god damn it. I can finally You Just have a massive dump and yeah, he's had a two foot poop. 

Adam Cox: Maybe maybe but he does have Dinosaur poo as well. And when you look at it, it I mean it just looks like rocks I mean some of them look like turds. 

Kyle Risi: Well, it's probably gonna be fossilized now, isn't it?

Adam Cox: Yeah, but um, so yeah, if it's you know, struggling for things to do in Arizona, 

Kyle Risi: there you go. Amazing Well, the one in the UK, one of their USPs is that they have loads of celebrity poo 

Adam Cox: Really? 

Kyle Risi: Can you care to name some of the celebrities? One. One. Dan Schreiber is the most recent addition. So he's a podcaster from, uh, No Such Thing As A Fish. Right. And he's donated his poo. And the thing is though, to get his poo to the museum , they had to really plan it because you can't just kind of poo in a box and 

Adam Cox: ship it off. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, so he was doing a live show in London. Uh huh. And he was going to bring the poo with him to the London show and then they would do the poo exchange. And then he would go off and he would then process the poo and then Dan's poo will now be in this poo museum, which is just incredible. 

Adam Cox: Can you imagine turning up backstage and then, I don't know, maybe he's got his PA to help him and he's like, Whoa. Don't be careful with that. That's my poo. 

Kyle Risi: That's my poo. They send you like this little kit as well. It looks like a pair of pants that don't come all the way up They just kind of suspend around your upper thighs and then there's like this nappy thing where you then poo into it, right?

Kyle Risi: And then yeah, that's and then you put that into the container and then they say refrigerator or something until you're ready to Send it off. 

Adam Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that mad? 

Kyle Risi: People are loving Pooh, man, at the minute. But this is bizarre because my All The Latest Things is also about Pooh. 

Adam Cox: Great. 

Kyle Risi: So. 

Adam Cox: We should really rename this segment.

Kyle Risi: We should! So, there is an absolutely hilarious video doing the rounds on YouTube and TikTok. And it's a voice message a woman receives from her sister. And she is just in tears and she's frantic and she's begging her sister to come and pick her up. Clearly, something terrible has happened, and now that you know that it's related to poop, you probably 

Adam Cox: She's pooed herself or something.

Kyle Risi: Wow. Turns out, this woman called us a Cintiis because she was at her boyfriend's house and she needed to poop, so, completely normal situation. Maybe a little bit awkward, especially if it's a new relationship. Uh huh. So, I get it. There might be some anxiety there. So, she excuses herself, she goes to the toilet, and then when she's done, she flushes it, but it won't flush. So she's literally clogged her boyfriend's toilet. 

Adam Cox: Oh, no. And I mean, what, what is someone to do in this situation, Adam? Well, I don't know, use a, um, the, the, the scrubber thing? Ugh. But then that's just gonna get messy. So you can't really do that. That's true, 

Kyle Risi: because then you have to rinse it and stuff. And 

Adam Cox: there's only so many times you can flush the toilet, when, like, two or three times and people would go, Hmm. They're having a poop. Yeah. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, they know, they know. I'm always conscious about that at work. Like, one flash and that's it. If it doesn't flash down, then, um, 

Adam Cox: Sorry, colleagues. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, just leave it. Blame it on someone else. So, she's frantically trying to brainstorm for a solution, and can you just imagine that montage of all the equations and the statistics and graphs kind of being overlaid across her vision? So she's looking around the room and she spots a cat litter box. Oh god. So she decides the most logical thing to do is to fish the poop out of the toilet, take it over to the cat litter box, bury it and pretend it was the cat.

Adam Cox: Okay, kind of makes sense. 

Kyle Risi: But a little while later her boyfriend comes up to her and asks her, If she pooped in the cat box. 

Adam Cox: I mean, a human poo is quite a bit bigger than a cat. Was that the giveaway? 

Kyle Risi: No. Of course, she immediately denies it. She's mortified at the even, the notion that he would even insinuate that she would do such a thing. And then her boyfriend proceeds to tell her that his cat has been dead for a week.

Kyle Risi: Just take that in for a second. Imagine feeling like you've hit a home run and then all of a sudden your entire world comes tumbling down around you. 

Adam Cox: I, I think you just go, I need to leave.

Kyle Risi: I think it's best that you go actually. I mean, a good, I

Adam Cox: kind of feel like she did the right thing in a way. Because if she couldn't flush it down 

Kyle Risi: Just be open and honest!

Adam Cox: So yeah, that was mine, but it wouldn't flush. 

Kyle Risi: I mean, when we first got together all those years ago, the very first thing that we were very apparent of is like, I leave your house feeling very bloated, and farts are just flapping out of us, right? They're just like So we just had a very open and frank conversation about pooping and farting and then it was fine, right?

Adam Cox: Yes, that's fine, yeah. 

Adam Cox: This reminds me of the story where the other woman, I think, uh, I think she was around her boyfriend's house. And she had trouble flushing it down, so she had to pick it up and then she lobbed it out of the window, not realizing that there was another window in front of that. So it was stuck in between like these two bits 

Kyle Risi: of, two windows 

Adam Cox: essentially, and didn't she try and get it out and she got stuck herself? Oh god, I vaguely remember that. I don't think we've ever done that as all the latest things, so it might be next week's. Wow. 

Kyle Risi: So Adam, The origins of the Titanic are fascinating And they provide context to why some of the passengers decided to board to the New World.

Kyle Risi: And to understand this, we need to look at three very key figures in this story. The first person is J. P. Morgan. Have you heard that name before? 

Adam Cox: Uh, yeah, but am I thinking, I'm probably getting confused with the alcohol. Yeah, so

Kyle Risi: no, maybe not this guy. Maybe not. Uh, a guy called Bruce Ismay and William Perry.

Kyle Risi: Right. Now, these names might not be as famous as the Titanic itself, but without them, the Titanic wouldn't even have existed in the first place. Okay. 

Kyle Risi: Now, J. P. Morgan, we'll start with him. So, J. P. Morgan, He embodied this ruthless, empire building, capitalist kind of persona in the late 19th and early 20th century America.

Kyle Risi: Now, Morgan made his fortune by investing in railroads and streetcars, becoming so rich that after the panic of 19 After the panic of 1893 , he could essentially bail out the USA. And his success in business stemmed from his ability to create these huge conglomerates and monopolies. 

Kyle Risi: And the most famous of this was U. S. Steel, where he bought up all the competitors, including Andrew Carnegie. Do you remember that name?

Adam Cox: Yeah, he was the guy that Cassie Chadwick was pretending to be part of his clan, his family.

Kyle Risi: That's right, yeah, his illegitimate daughter. That's it. Yeah, so apparently for 240 million dollars, that's all timely money, he bought out his family. Uh, Andrew Carnegie's, kind of, steel, kind of, smelting business. 

Kyle Risi: Wow. So, with his competitors out of the market, he could then fix prices to kind of, um, He could then fix prices to kind of suit his own, kind of, agenda. Sure. If you will. 

Kyle Risi: So after creating a monopoly in steel, Morgan wanted to dominate the seas as well as the land. And this move was strategic for several reasons. Because at the time, the Gilded Age was obsessed with technology and modernity. Inventions like the steam engine, motor vehicles, electricity, refrigeration, and telephones were all beginning to change the world at this time.

Kyle Risi: And across all these technologies, there was this constant race to be the best, the biggest, the fastest. Americans loved fast cars, fast communication, and of course, fast transatlantic travel on even bigger and bigger ships. 

Kyle Risi: And at the time steamships were the ultimate symbol of modernity because they could bring people from europe to the new world for a better life And for the rich, it meant that they could extend their playground to the world, accessing European artworks, jewels, and culture.

Kyle Risi: So Morgan started a conglomerate called the International Mercantile Marine. And this involved buying up different companies that specialised in transporting people across the Atlantic. And one of these was a British company called Whitestar. 

Kyle Risi: Recognise that name? 

Kyle Risi: No. That's the company that built the Titanic, Adam. 

Adam Cox: Oh, okay. No, I didn't know that. Oh 

Kyle Risi: my god, I'm shocked. Okay, well at least you now know something. So by establishing this monopoly in transatlantic travel, Morgan could now of course set prices to suit himself, just like he did with steel.

Kyle Risi: Now, J. P. Morgan's acquisition of White Star introduces us to the next person in our story. He is a guy called Bruce Ismay, and Bruce's father, Thomas Ismay, initially started the White Star line. And when he died, of course, the business was handed down to Bruce. And unlike other liners that focused on speed, the White Star line emphasized speed. passenger comfort and luxury. 

Kyle Risi: Now, when Bruce Ismay inherited the company, he intended to carry on his father's legacy as a family owned business. However, shortly after his father's death, Bruce surprised everyone by selling White Star to Morgan. Morgan was so set on acquiring White Star that he paid Bruce 10 times the market value, offering him 35 million plus a premium of 7 million. That's old, timely money, Adam. That is huge. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, what is that now then? Because that's like over a hundred years ago. So that must be, I don't know, that must be a lot.

Kyle Risi: A lot of money, man. So, part of this hefty sale price included purchasing Bruce himself. Because Bruce would continue to run White Star Line under the International Mercantile Marine kind of company. Keeping the ships under a British flag, as well as all British crews to preserve the brand's identity and standards that became so synonymous with White Star.

Kyle Risi: So with J. P. Morgan almost set on establishing a monopoly on transatlantic travel, two snags began to emerge, making things very, very difficult for him. 

Kyle Risi: Now, during, so for context, during the Boer War, Thomas Ismay had lent the British government several ships to aid in the war effort in South Africa. Yeah.

Kyle Risi: And these loan ships were pivotal in the British's success abroad making the government really nervous About white star no longer being kind of on hand to loan them any ships if they ever needed to right So the british government looked to another shipping company called cunard for this assurance. 

Kyle Risi: And they gave cunard a huge cash injection in exchange for a promise that they would Help the government if they ever acquired ships again, but this meant You That J. P. Morgan was unsuccessful in acquiring Cunard. They were now a competitor that he couldn't just buy up because of course he needs to establish a Monopoly in order to fix prices for himself, right?

Kyle Risi: Yes, 

Adam Cox: of course. 

Kyle Risi: Now the second snag was the Germans they decided to enter the shipping industry as well, but they emphasized speed alongside Ritz Carton standards of luxury.

Adam Cox: So both essentially. 

Kyle Risi: Both. Yeah, that's the big problem. This is of course beyond anything that white side ever done And additionally the germans were building Many ships lots of them and this caused a big saturation in the market Essentially in the niche of luxury travel that morgan wanted to dominate. 

Kyle Risi: This meant that going that competing was going to be hard and also that he had no choice now because he'd already bought the company once so he can go back on the deal right?

Adam Cox: Yeah but they're known for like luxury but not necessarily speed at this point. 

Kyle Risi: That is correct yeah and they will never be known for speed they're always going to be known for luxury and passenger comfort. 

Kyle Risi: So Morgan and Bruce Ismay teamed up with the first Viscount William James Perry. And he was the head of the Heartland Woolf shipyards in Belfast and together they hatched a plan to double down on the White Star's emphasis on luxury and passenger comfort

Kyle Risi: and together they to build the Olympic, the Britannic, and drawing in the headlines the titanic Which would be the world's most luxurious And largest ship at the time. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, that's why I remember that it was supposed to be like the biggest one Ever to set sail up until that point. 

Kyle Risi: I think it was like only like three inches bigger than the olympic So it wasn't that much bigger.

Adam Cox: Oh, really? Oh, okay. I was thinking it was like everything else paled in comparison. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, no, it wasn't that much bigger. 

Adam Cox: I guess it's like skyscrapers now. They're always like edging out what's going to be the next biggest sort of skyscraper. And when you look at it, it's only like some of them, they're only like one or two feet.

Adam Cox: And sometimes 

Kyle Risi: they just put an arrow on top. Yeah, my arrows bigger than yours. All right, Jim. It's very skinny though.

Kyle Risi: So these three ships will be built in Belfast, which by 1912 was the biggest and richest industrial city in Ireland. And they produce things like cigarettes, cars, and even more linen than anywhere else on earth. They were also renowned for, of course, their shipbuilding. So to ensure they met this brief of premium luxury, the designer, Thomas Andrews and Bruce Ismay drew inspiration from the world's finest hotels and restaurants.

Kyle Risi: And in order to do this, they took a trip on the maiden voyage of the Olympic, their aim was to identify everything that the Titanic was not to be. 

Adam Cox: Okay. 

Kyle Risi: For instance, they noticed that the kitchens didn't have potato peelers, so like that needs to change. in the toilet, so again, that had to change too. They thought that the reception rooms could kind of do with having more tables and cane chairs.

Kyle Risi: And they tested all the mattresses. They found them too springy, so they were like, that all needs to change too. And they also thought that the Olympic needed more Cabins on the top deck. So the plan was for the Titanic to be fitted with multi room class suites that included sitting rooms, servant quarters, and even private balconies, all within these luxury kind of suites on board the top deck.

Adam Cox: I'm surprised that they didn't have potato peelers. And they were like, this, the Titanic, needs potato peelers. I I

Kyle Risi: guess they were just using a paring knife at the time, but yeah, that's one of the things they said. That's just weird. Potato peelers.

Kyle Risi: The Titanic would also have all the latest technologies, like electricity, refrigerators, and even a Marconi wireless station, Which will allow you to send messages to land and they even had a printing press on board in order to provide daily newspapers to passengers. 

Adam Cox: No way, so how are they getting their stories from like the signals that they were transferring?

Kyle Risi: Exactly, that Marconi device would always be like pinging messages and then someone would scribe them down and then they would send it to the printing press and then someone in the printing press would then print newspapers for the newspapers for the 

Adam Cox: next day. 

Kyle Risi: That's very clever. Isn't that incredible?

Kyle Risi: so would just. In terms of the size, the Titanic would just be three inches larger than the Olympic. That would basically make this the biggest ship ever built by White Star, representing the highest attainments in naval architecture and marine engineering. And this accolade was important, especially if they were going to justify the price that they were going to charge for a single ticket. Which was 870 per trip, equivalent to 400, 000 in today's money. Of course, that was only for. The first class passengers, right? Yeah, 

Adam Cox: I mean that is a lot. It's huge But I guess how long are they how long is the trip because I guess five 

Kyle Risi: days 

Adam Cox: five days and 400 grand.

Kyle Risi: Yeah Damn, I know right? So this ship needs to be luxurious and it bloody was so we are talking about a ship for billionaires Adam like the elon musks of the world and the jeff bezos However, while the titanic was the biggest most luxurious ship ever ever built by White Star. It was first and foremost intended to be an immigrant ship.

Adam Cox: Yeah, because a lot of passengers were going to like, set sail, because it was, the maiden voyage was from Southampton, wasn't it, or Portsmouth, somewhere down there. Yeah. And it was going to New York. And so I knew a lot of people were going to go start a new life, hence the new world or whatever, that I knew a lot of people were on board that ship to do that.

Kyle Risi: I, while I knew they had like third class passengers, first and foremost, of course, I thought it was just a A luxury liner and realize that ultimately that's how they were going to make a lot of their money, right? 

Adam Cox: Yeah, I think I knew that but then yeah Maybe it gets played down from all the luxury and obviously the tragedy 

Kyle Risi: I think some sources have said like it was first and foremost a immigrant ship others is like no It was a luxury liner, but I think it needed to be in between right because of course There's only a set number of millionaires in the world

Kyle Risi: and there's only a set number of times that they're going to want to get onto one of these ships. Whereas there are millions and millions of migrants coming across the Atlantic every year. So that's how they can guarantee that income. So I think there's a little bit from this column and a little bit of that column.

Kyle Risi: And at this time emigration to the new world was booming with over a million people moving to the united states every year and this mass migration was driven by various geopolitical issues that were plaguing europe at the time many hopeful migrants were captivated by the american dream that was being propagated by companies like white star Through kind of these enticing adverts and poems and paintings depicting the riches and the better life awaiting them in the United States.

Kyle Risi: Mm-Hmm. and the white star line emphasized how much easier this dream was to achieve, thanks to the size and the comfort of their Olympic class sized kind of ships and. This even extended to what life was like traveling in steerage or third class like even that was going to be comfortable as well, which was Mind blowing and pioneering for the time because no one ever cared about third class passengers or steerage in any way

Kyle Risi: so this dream team set off building the Titanic incorporating the best safety features that naval engineering could offer at the time. And the ship was to be fitted with a double bottom, meaning it would have two sets of steel plates along its keel, which means that if it ever ran aground, there would be a second keel preventing the ship from taking on water.

Kyle Risi: But this double bottom only applied to the keel of the ship, meaning that if damage was ever received to the sides, it would then take on water. 

Adam Cox: Right, okay. 

Kyle Risi: But to counter this, the Titanic was fitted with 15 bulkheads. Now imagine these as vertical lines dividing the ship into 16 sections.

Kyle Risi: All of which could act as their own watertight compartment. This means that if the ship ever ran into something like, um, an iceberg, What are the chances? What are the chances? Then the bulkheads could easily kind of be shut. And basically that means that it would prevent it from taking on water because you can shut these airtight compartments on the sides, right? Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. It does, as long as no more than four compartments are breached and are fully flooded, the ship would continue to stay afloat and would not sink.

Adam Cox: Okay. 

Kyle Risi: However, there was a flaw in this design. These bulkheads were very expensive, and in some sections, they were only built to rise up 10 feet above the waterline. Now what does that mean?

Kyle Risi: This means that if enough compartments were damaged, the ship would then start to take on water, it would then cause the ship to tip, allowing water to then spill over into the next compartment, which would then cause the ship to tip even more, and this would kick start like a cascade of further tipping before the ship then capsized.

Adam Cox: Right, but they didn't think that it would fill that, if it was to get damaged, they didn't think it would fill above these levels. No, because 

Kyle Risi: based on probability, the chances of more than four sections being damaged were unlikely. Because typically, when a ship hits an iceberg, it collides head on, right?

Kyle Risi: Yeah. The bulkheads at the front are completely watertight. Completely. The designers believed that it was improbable that a ship would ever hit an iceberg from the side, Right. So they thought that they could get away with shorter bulkheads, uh, but in this case, the Titanic, as we know, it hit the iceberg from the side, as of course we'll discuss in the next episode, and that just made it very unlucky.

Adam Cox: Yeah, yeah, I like how they thought, this is going to be really safe and everything, what are the chances, but this is what happens with engineering, right, you do something, then obviously the unthinkable happens, and then you have to upgrade your 

Kyle Risi: It literally made the Titanic able to just ram an iceberg. It was common practice. If you see an iceberg, don't change trajectory. Just ram it. 

Adam Cox: Yeah. That's, isn't that what they say? Like, if it just like, didn't like turn, then it probably would have been okay. We might cover this next episode. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly it. 

Adam Cox: Yeah. 

Kyle Risi: So they considered all these different things. Things they just didn't consider. That actually someone would try and turn the ship and they would smack the iceberg from the side. 

Adam Cox: I bet they felt so smug going, Ah, we've built the best ship. 

Kyle Risi: Well, yeah, I guess so. I guess so. So as for lifeboats, that's the other thing that we know about the Titanic is that they just did not have enough lifeboats.

Kyle Risi: But the thing is though, the Titanic was in complete compliance with the current marine time safety regulations which, was becoming increasingly outdated as ships got bigger and bigger, right? Right. So ships over like 10, 000 tonnes needed to have 16 lifeboats, which were sufficient for 960 passengers so the number of lifeboats were based on tonnage rather than how many people you got on board, 

Adam Cox: right? Okay, that's a bit silly, 

Kyle Risi: right? Yeah, so the titanic had 20 lifeboats in total 14 standard wooden lifeboats with a capacity of 65 people two emergency cutter kind of boats with a capacity of 40 people And then two kind of Englehart collapsible lifeboats with a capacity of around 47 people each. Now, the total lifeboat capacity on the Titanic was around 1, 178. 

Adam Cox: And how many crew and passengers were on the Titanic? 

Kyle Risi: So, there were 2, 224 passengers and crew on board when the Titanic sank. 

Adam Cox: It's about half ish. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

Adam Cox: so, what I remember, people would always say, like, Oh, the Titanic was unsinkable. It didn't need that many lifeboats. But actually, the reason was, the safety standard at that time, was actually, they were just meeting that minimum requirement.

Adam Cox: Sure. 

Kyle Risi: William Perry and Thomas Andrews did consider including 48, possibly even 64 lifeboats. 

Adam Cox: Really? 

Kyle Risi: Because they had an understanding that these regulations were outdated and there was looming conversations happening that could potentially change the regulations and then up the number of lifeboats.

Kyle Risi: They didn't want to go through the ball ache of having to kind of change that once they started building the ship, So they considered upping the number of lifeboats, but it became very apparent that this wasn't going to actually happen. And also they preferred unobstructed views. So they decided to stick with 20 lifeboats. Which was still four more than the regulations required. So to them, the Titanic was the forefront of health and safety at the time. 

Adam Cox: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. 

Kyle Risi: But they also thought that because the Atlantic was a wash with other ships, these other ships could act as lifeboats in themselves. And as we know, this was tragically flawed because yes, another ship did arrive on the scene. That was the Carpathia, but it was far too late. It was like three hours too late. 

Adam Cox: As I say, it's not like, uh, I don't know, like the motorway where you've got all these like ships just like crossing each path with each other.

Kyle Risi: But, but this, this is how they viewed things at the time. Wow. 

Kyle Risi: So on the 31st of March, 1909, the Titanic was ready to lay down its keel. And after two years of building, JP Morgan, Bruce Ismay and William Perry were all there to see it. And once it was in the water. Thank God it didn't sink. And so that meant that it was time to start kitting out the interior which took roughly around about a year to do.

Adam Cox: Really? 

Kyle Risi: Wow, that's 

Adam Cox: quite 

Kyle Risi: a long time. It was quite a long time, isn't it? So it was finally completed on April the 2nd, 1912, when they concluded 12 hours of sea trials. They practiced maneuvering, reversing, turning, and everything. was just perfect, right? Everything worked brilliantly. So they decided that they were going to waste no time at all.

Kyle Risi: They boarded all the crew and they set sail for Southampton to begin the Titanic's life, crossing back and forth across the Atlantic. 

Kyle Risi: Now, when in Southampton they started loading the ship with all the supplies it would need. And it is a lot of shit. Okay. Here's just a few of the things that they included on board. 800 bundles of asparagus. 

Adam Cox: Okay. 

Kyle Risi: 16, 000 lemons. That's a lot of lemons. There is a lot of lemons. For five days. 

Adam Cox: Okay. Is this for just for one trip? This kind of the amount that they're I'm assuming so. Yeah. Okay. 

Kyle Risi: A thousand pounds of grapes. Okay. 2, 500 of sausages, 1, 500 bottles of wine, which I think is not that much. 

Adam Cox: Well, mate, because I guess the wine is only going to be drunk by those that can probably afford it. And so if we're saying that maybe only 500 upper class people there, potentially, then maybe that's okay, two bottles? I, uh, some, for some reason. They perhaps weren't heavy drinkers like they are, like we are now. 

Kyle Risi: Maybe, maybe. On board were 12 mops. Uh huh. 12? That doesn't feel like enough. It doesn't feel like enough! Who did the quantity? I don't know! There was 400 sugar tongs, uh, 8000 tumblers, uh, they had 50 boxes of grapefruit, 40 tons of potatoes, which is, that's huge, I guess.

Kyle Risi: But how many 

Adam Cox: peelers? 

Kyle Risi: Just one peeler. That's what Bruce May, uh, insisted on. Are you serious? They just had one peeler? I have no idea how many peelers they had, but it's funny to me that probably just the one. He was like, do you know what? This ship doesn't have a potato peeler. Add that to the list. One. Potato peeler. Check. Yeah. And 6, 000 pounds of bacon and ham. Okay. So just a few things on the list and that's a lot of stuff but also not what I expected. 12 mops and just like 1, 500 bottles of wine. 

Adam Cox: Yeah I guess what it sounds like, we know this from the lifeboats, their quantities of things not quite right.

Adam Cox: No

Kyle Risi: exactly. Different world. Like I said this episode is a window Into what life was like back then. Clearly, clearly have got their priorities incorrect. Yeah. Yeah, so basically they just had a lot of people to feed and a very few puddles of vomit to clean up because they weren't gonna Have the alcohol on board, right?

Adam Cox: Maybe, but then people get seasick. You're gonna 

Kyle Risi: need more mops and buckets. That's true! 

Kyle Risi: So while all this was being loaded, the crew arrived for duty. In total, there were going to be 908 crew members divided into three departments, the deck, the engine and the stewards. And amongst the deck crew were, of course, the main officers.

Kyle Risi: A surgeon, a shopkeeper, window cleaners, and even lamp trimmers to go around and set the lamps for the evening. So it was really cool. 

Kyle Risi: And life for the crew while they were working was just brutal, Adam. For like a regular deck and steward crew, their days were typically 16 hours long. But as for the engine crew, like conditions were quite literally hell.

Kyle Risi: Not only were they stuck below deck for most of their shift working like in plus 40 degrees celsius heat, they were dirty and they were sweltering and at the end of their shift They would be literally literally squelching In their boots covered in sweat and soot only to be back To work like in a few hours.

Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean, I've watched Below Decks and I get how it could be quite hard. 

Kyle Risi: Adam, Below Deck Mediterranean is not the same as I'm in a 

Adam Cox: 30 degree, 35 degree heat, that's hot. They have to get up at 6, like that chef's always cooking and stuff. 

Kyle Risi: That's true, but it's not quite the same. 

Adam Cox: No, they don't probably get like a few grand tips either.

Adam Cox: No, 

Kyle Risi: they don't. So there is this really harrowing story about some of the crew members that highlights just how luck played a part in whether or not you lived or died on board the Titanic. 

Kyle Risi: So it was tradition that before starting on your gruelling stint on board the ship, was that you go on one last pub crawl. 

Kyle Risi: So four crew members including a guy called john podesta and william nutbean, which I just love that name Went off to meet some of their mates at the pub called the grapes And at 10 50 a. m Just a couple hours before they were due to report for duty They realized that they were late and they decided to start rushing back to the ship now approaching the dock They had come across a railway and As they got there a passenger train was kind of approaching.

Kyle Risi: Now John Podesta, he runs across the track but the others had to wait for the train to pass. So John decided that he was just going to continue to the ship to avoid being late because they were cutting real fine at the moment. But because the train is much longer than expected the others had to wait and wait and wait and finally when the train passed they Rushed across to the dock, but it was too late.

Kyle Risi: The gangway was being closed So they shouted over at the officer to kind of let them through but again, like I said, it was too late They just refused calling them unreliable and untrustworthy and then they gestured over to some of the standby crew to take their place.

Kyle Risi: And so those four guys missed their call and five days later, all those standby crew would be dead. Wow. 

Kyle Risi: So if that train had just been delayed by just one minute or had been a little bit shorter, those men who lived and who died would have been completely different. And this just highlights just how much luck played a part in some instances. And we will come to the number of survivors later on. But what is sad is that out of the 908 crew, only 212 survive. 

Adam Cox: Damn. That's a lot. That lost their lives. Yeah. And that's so fortunate. These people just kind of made a slight mistake, which benefited them, which they had no idea about. I be, I guess they were stressing so much they lost their job, whatever it is. Yes. That's it Actually, they, they were the luckiest people in people. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

Adam Cox: In the end, it's kind of like my granddad actually, in a way. Really, uh, in World War ii. So he was put in prison. I remember one night and that meant he missed, uh, getting on board the U boat or whatever it was that he needed to be on. And pretty much everyone on there, um, it was sunk and everyone on there pretty much lost their life. 

Kyle Risi: Wow. 

Adam Cox: So. 

Kyle Risi: Wow. And what are things you have to live with for your whole life? Mm. Because that's a key things that a lot of the survivors have to live with. Like, why them? Yeah. How lucky they were that they got a spot on a lifeboat. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, my grandad was very fortunate. There was another time, but, uh, I think he was on a boat and it was sinking, and just suddenly he found a life jacket. Just one left. Wow, 

Kyle Risi: just so lucky. And he 

Adam Cox: couldn't swim. So he picked that up and he got into the water, and I think someone else was there who helped him, sort of thing. But just one of those weird luck coincidences there. And then he made you! Well, yeah, a few years later. 

Kyle Risi: It's just incredible. So again, like I said, it highlights just how much luck was involved in the fact that some of these people lived and died.

Kyle Risi: So this brings us to another set of very famous crew members, including The second officer, a guy called Charles Lightoller, whose, Adam, his life story is just incredible. 

Kyle Risi: So, just real briefly, he came from a wealthy family of cotton processors, and at the age of 13, a little bit like your grandad actually, so, at the age of 13, he began a four year sea apprentice, where he was caught up in a terrifying cyclone, which ended up in him being shipwrecked.

Kyle Risi: Then at the age of 21, he spent three years in West Africa, uh, nearly dying of malaria. Then in 1898, he went on to the gold rush in the gold rushes in America, where he then became a cowboy. He then joined the white star as a junior officer, making all the way up to second officer of the Titanic. Of course, the Titanic sank and he survived that.

Kyle Risi: And the list of things just go on and on and on. And the, the kind of the close kind of escapes. Yeah. What do you call it? The, the near death experiences that he experienced were just incredible. I think some 

Adam Cox: people just have, uh, different types of luck in life. And some people have this kind of weird luck, like you've either screwed someone, you either like, I don't know, broke a lot of mirrors or something, or you've got some guardian angel looking over you.

Kyle Risi: That's it. And yeah, he goes on and lives an incredible life. He retires at 72 and he ends up dying at 78. So his story is just incredible, but he features majorly in the story, especially in the second episode. 

Kyle Risi: But then perhaps one of the most famous captains in the world is of course, Captain Edward Smith, who throughout his entire career, he clocked up over 2 million miles for the white star line. And he was extremely competent. His salary at the time was 1, 225 a year. Which is the equivalent of like 800, 000 today.

Kyle Risi: So it's huge. Plus, he would also get a bonus if he ever brought the ship back in good working order as well. Which I'm hoping he did fairly often. Well, typically, yeah. I mean, well, we'll get onto that. 

Adam Cox: Maybe not obviously that Titanic. Yeah, what's 

Kyle Risi: good work in order? Like, oh, like, mantelpiece. Or is it like, oh, there's a major hole in the hull.

Adam Cox: I think just as long as it gets back. There you go. 

Kyle Risi: Oh, it's back. 

Adam Cox: Doing your job. 

Kyle Risi: Natural wear and tear. And he looks just like his character in the James Cameron 1997 film. 100 percent great cast in there. But the issue was that captain Smith was a bit past his retirement. In fact, his age was starting to kind of cause a few problems for him because in the eight months prior to him sailing the Titanic, he was involved in two incidents. One where he had rammed his ship into a British cruiser and another time where he had sailed over kind of a wrecked ship resulting in him losing his propeller.

Kyle Risi: So not good for his reputation, and this would eventually result in questions over whether or not he was incompetent. of mind to even be captaining the Titanic. 

Adam Cox: Right, so he was quite good, but he's had a couple of accidents. 

Kyle Risi: Couple of accidents. 

Adam Cox: Which, it feels like riding over something, maybe you didn't realise, maybe I can understand that one, but like riding or driving straight into 

Kyle Risi: probably reversing or maneuvering. Yeah, he had another close hit as well when he was actually sailing the Titanic to Cherbourg, where he almost hit another cruise liner. But at the same time, it was heavily congested. So like he, he didn't actually hit them. So that's actually shows That he's actually a great competent 

Adam Cox: captain 

Kyle Risi: because he didn't hit it in a situation where everything was congested.

Kyle Risi: But then these other two times? Exactly, exactly. So these are just the questions that people are asking. 

Kyle Risi: So Now I'm going to introduce you to some of our passengers. 

Adam Cox: Is it Rose and Jack? We'll see.

Kyle Risi: So on the morning of the 10th of April 1912 It was the day of the Titanic's maiden voyage and time for the passengers to board 

Kyle Risi: most of the passengers started their journey from Waterloo Station where there were several boat trains lined up to shuttle passengers to the Titanic In Southampton. 

Kyle Risi: That morning at Waterloo Station, there were literally hundreds of paparazzi waiting at the station to take photographs of the millionaires all arriving to start heading to the Titanic.

Kyle Risi: There were 427 passengers in the 1st and 2nd class, and 495 passengers in the 3rd class that will all be boarding these trains to shuttle to the Titanic.

Kyle Risi: So when they arrived at Southampton, they had to begin the process of loading all the luggage onto the Titanic, 7, 000 pieces of it.

Kyle Risi: Most famous item loaded was a Renault type CB Coupe DeVille car. I believe that's how you pronounce it. A car. A car. So cast your mind back to the film, Titanic, when Rose gets out of the car. Oh, 

Adam Cox: yeah. 

Kyle Risi: And her hat comes up. 

Adam Cox: Yeah. 

Kyle Risi: Sun hits her face. Uh huh. Titanic is seen in the distance. Uh huh. And you see all these people kind of, kind of cranking up all the luggage and mounting that onto the ship. And one of those pieces was the car and famously also the car. 

Adam Cox: Where they do that scene? They do the sex scene. Yeah. The steamy sex 

Kyle Risi: scene. That car was actually on board. Oh. Yeah. 

Adam Cox: Okay. I didn't 

Kyle Risi: realize that was her car. No, it's not her car. Oh, right. It's just a car. Okay. I was just trying to paint a picture for You. the car was actually owned by a guy called William Ernest Carter. So he was a wealthy passenger from Pennsylvania. 

Kyle Risi: So all the passengers were on board the Titanic was set to kind of pick up the next lot of passengers in Cherbourg in France Where they actually picked up a lot more first class passengers. And because Cherbourg didn't have a big enough docking station Most of the passengers had to be shuttled to the ship in smaller kind of little boats Along with all of their luggage Adam and this took Most of the passengers picked up were Americans who had been travelling around Europe and kind of spending time in places like Paris and Venice.

Kyle Risi: Finally, the Titanic eventually pulls out of Cherbourg at around 8pm that evening and heads to Cove in Ireland to collect their last load of passengers now the important thing to remember is that we don't actually know how many people boarded the Titanic because many passengers that were booked on didn't actually turn up. Amongst the millionaires, cancelling at the last minute was often seen as a sign of status to just not show up? 

 So, some of the millionaires that, uh, didn't show up, was a guy called Milton Hershey. The great chocolate entrepreneur. I was 

Adam Cox: going to say, with the Hershey guy. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, terrible chocolate probably should have been on board the ship that day to fully put an end to that brand of chocolate. Of course, I'm only joking. 

Adam Cox: Oh yeah, I quite like the cookies and cream.

Adam Cox: No. But it's not chocolate. It's 

Kyle Risi: not chocolate, Adam. It's, 

Adam Cox: it's, it's Moclet. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, you did it, you got a friend's reference in. 

Kyle Risi: Then there was a guy called Henry Clay Fick and his wife who were American Industrialists, and I think he was a financer and an art patron. They cancelled at the last minute because his wife had sprained her ankle, so they made a lucky escape as well. Also, George Vanderbilt, an American art collector and of course a member of the Vanderbilt family. He and his wife cancelled at the last minute Because literally they had better things to do and remember tickets on board the Titanic were going for upwards of 400, 000 for first class. So that's just wild to me that someone would just be like, oh, it's fine. I'll cancel 

Adam Cox: Yeah, and the fact that they were happy to lose that money or maybe I'm assuming they would have lost that money They only got like a refund.

Kyle Risi: Oh god knows. 

Adam Cox: Yeah nice crazy 

Kyle Risi: And of course one of the most famous passengers that weren't on board that was supposed to be was J. P. Morgan himself. He was supposed to be traveling and the reason why he wasn't is because there was this looming fear that a new tax was going to be introduced in France where he kept a lot of his artwork. So he decided to cancel at the last minute so he could oversee the movement of his art collection from Paris to America.

Kyle Risi: There is a conspiracy theory though, that JPMorgan, who of course famously Uh, bailed out the USA during the economic panic just a few years earlier, had arranged for John Jacob Astor, Benjamin Guggenheim, and Isidore Strauss, who were, of course, all 

Kyle Risi: all of whom were passengers on the Titanic and suppo All of whom were All of whom were passengers on the Titanic and opposed to Morgan's bailout of the USA. And apparently he'd arranged them all to be on board, and the conspiracy is that J. P. Morgan knew the Titanic was going to sink, thereby removing them from the equation.

Adam Cox: Wow, that's a wild theory. That feels a little bit crazy. But 

Kyle Risi: also stupid because like, sure, maybe you knew this, the ship was going to sink, but you can't guarantee that they're not going to get onto a lifeboat. And also they're first class passengers. They're probably more likely to get into a lifeboat.

Kyle Risi: Yeah. And did he think that the thing was going to sink? Yeah, that 

Adam Cox: feels a bit. 

Kyle Risi: Just conspiracy theory. The thing is, though, in the aftermath of these types of tragedies, people look for blame. They look for reason. They look for reasons why these things happen. So this is where a lot of these conspiracy theories get borne out of.

Adam Cox: And the guy you mentioned, his name was Guggenheim? Guggenheim. That's a really good name. 

Kyle Risi: Well, I'm going to come on to that because we have a little connection to Guggenheim. 

Adam Cox: We? As in us? Yeah, on one of our little trips away. Oh really? 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, I'll explain in just a second when we get to some of the passages.

Kyle Risi: Right. So out of the passengers that did turn up, we have a very famous guy, and one of the world's richest men, worth a whopping 2. 6 billion dollars in today's money. He is John Jacob Astor IV. Now the Astor family was a very powerful dynasty during the kind of the Gilded Age in New York, and the Astors owned the Wardorf Astoria, which was kind of like what the luxury on the Titanic was famously modeled after.

Kyle Risi: That was the Wardorf Astoria hotels. Right. And his hotels invented the idea of providing tea rooms and bar lounges, very much like that gentlemen's kind of club atmosphere.

Kyle Risi: And the idea was that a luxury hotel was not just a place where you slept. But also where you could also hang out as well. And Asa was very keen on making sure that he distinguished himself from the average American millionaires. So we worked really, really hard to dress more English.

Kyle Risi: So he would wear like an overcoat with a velvet collar. He had a bowler hat complete with an umbrella and a very, very English, messy, bushy mustache. , he kind of looked like the father from Mary Poppins. Almost exactly like that. 

Adam Cox: Sure. Okay. 

Kyle Risi: Now, he was traveling with his new wife, Madeline Force, who people called his child bride because she was just 18 at the time and he was 47.

Kyle Risi: And people did not like this. And after they got married, he wanted to introduce her to all of his friends in society, but hardly anyone turned up. And also, if they ever saw them out at the opera, people would literally just leave. So, millionaires are very, very clicky people, Adam. Yeah, I thought so. So before boarding the Titanic, they'd been travelling around Egypt and France, and at this point, Madeleine was four months pregnant.

Kyle Risi: So they were returning back to New York and with them they had a huge entourage including the valet, her maid, his nurse, her nursemaid, her nursemaid to obviously help with the pregnancy and of course they had their beloved dog Kitty with them as well. And Kitty was just, uh, one of 12 confirmed dogs on the ship as well.

Kyle Risi: There was a King Charles Spaniel, a Fox Terrier, a Bulldog, a Pekingese dog called Sun Yat sen and a massive Great Dane as well. 

Kyle Risi: Also on board was the ship's cat called Jenny. Aww. Sadly, most of the dogs obviously died including little Jenny as well. That makes me really sad. I can just imagine her. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, screw the people. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, save Jenny! Another millionaire on board was Ben Guggenheim. Of course, as I mentioned, They have a famous obviously art gallery of the same name. In fact, their daughter Peggy has an art gallery in Venice.

Kyle Risi: Which we walked past near the entrance to the grand canal kind of towards that big massive opening Oh, yeah, and I remember I have a picture of us meet me taking a picture of the little kind of concrete plaque Oh, yeah, and yeah, so the Guggenheim's they were famous silver miners and extremely wealthy 

Kyle Risi: They were also notorious strike breakers meaning that when their miners would go on strike They would often just ship in some scabs and they were just like so extremely unpopular amongst the lower classes. But they lived on 5th Avenue and they had been traveling around Europe, just hanging around Venice and Paris, that was kind of their playground.

Kyle Risi: So Ben also was traveling with his young 18 year old French wife called, leonotine ? I can't pronounce that. That doesn't sound 

Adam Cox: French, but we'll go with it. It 

Kyle Risi: sounds like a female version of Leon. 

Adam Cox: Leon. 

Kyle Risi: Leon. How would you womanise Leon? 

Adam Cox: Leona? 

Kyle Risi: No, it's like Leon, Leon tine. Leon tine? Leon tine. I'm so terrible with accents. Leontine. Leontine, maybe, yeah.

Kyle Risi: I don't know. Basically, she was a French singer. This was very, very controversial. So they were very unpopular amongst the elites. So on board, they just kept themselves to themselves. They also had a huge entourage as well. They had maids, valets, a chauffeur who they booked into second class as well.

Kyle Risi: So the next family that we have is the Widener family. So George and Eleanor, along with their son, Harry and daughter in law, they'd been visiting Paris specifically to buy fabric for their daughter's wedding. Apparently you can only get this fabric in France. So Harry, their son, he was a huge bibliophile and Apparently he was really hot, but I looked him up and Adam, he looks like Eddie Munster. 

Adam Cox: Well, Eddie could have grown into a fine young man. 

Kyle Risi: Nah, I couldn't see anything other than Eddie Munster with his slick back hair.

Kyle Risi: He didn't have obviously his widow's bow 

Adam Cox: I find it crazy that people are, just to show how wealthy I guess these people are. They are taking a trip to Paris just to buy some material. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's mental. 

Adam Cox: That's ridiculous. It's 

Kyle Risi: crazy. So with him, he had a 1598 edition of Francis Bacon's essays with him, which he'd bought for 260 pounds. To give you a sense of just how extremely wealthy they were, his mother's pearls were insured. This is just insured, not bought for, insured for 100. for 100. 250, 000. So 260 for a 1598 book was just chump change to them. 

Adam Cox: Yeah. 

Kyle Risi: But that book, Adam, that's a Francis Bacon 1598 edition of his essays. That's now lost to the sea and it makes you question what other artefacts might be. are also lost. Like in the James Cameron film we see Rose like having her staff hang a Picasso, there's a Degas, there's a Monet. Obviously those didn't sync because they still exist today. But these millionaires, they were obsessed with European artifacts.

Kyle Risi: So it makes you question what else has been lost to the sea because at the time this was the only way that you could shuttle artworks across the ocean. So, how many ships have sunk or how many things have been lost? There must be loads. 

Adam Cox: Well, hasn't there been so many, um, like, people diving on the Titanic to recover whatever they can?

Adam Cox: And that's where they found some of these artefacts, I'm assuming, in order, which has inspired the movie. 

Kyle Risi: Sure, yeah, they've recovered a few things. In fact, James Cameron himself.

Kyle Risi: So there were some gays on the Titanic. 

Adam Cox: What? 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, so there was this couple who were both from the world of politics. They were Frances Millet and Archie Butt. 

Adam Cox: Archie Butt. 

Kyle Risi: Archie Butt. So Frances Millet was a renowned artist, muralist, and a war correspondent in Russia. And he had served during the Civil War and he had loads of war accolades.

Kyle Risi: However, his lover was Archie Butt. . I can't talk. My surname. So, um, he was much younger than Francis. So he bagged himself a little daddy. And Archie was the military advisor to President Taft and they were extremely close friends, which I love. So he was probably openly gay with the president, yet the president didn't shun him. Yeah. So it kind of shows you like there are some pockets of society. That didn't completely disown someone for being gay or reject them, which is I quite like I I don't believe for a second that he didn't know that he was in a romantic relationship with another man 

Adam Cox: And I've just to double check because I don't know that president. I'm assuming the US president is saying that.

Kyle Risi: Yes, President Taft So I've got a funny little antidote about him. So they were really close friends So Archie would often kind of misplay golf shots for the president so that he would just like feel better about how bad he was at playing golf. Oh 

Adam Cox: no, you win again, Mr. President. 

Kyle Risi: And like, President Taft gets a real bad rap for being a really pathetic president. Really obese, kind of fat president who's always just seen as a bit of a buffoon. Right, okay.

Kyle Risi: So they would say up late at night, they would also play a kind of bridge. He would laugh at all of Taft's really bad jokes. Archie was kind of one of the very few people that would be able to tolerate the really horrible, vile meals that the fat president would serve. Like, broil chicken. fish chowder, mustard pickles.

Kyle Risi: But also, when people would be really mean to the president, calling him fatty, Archie would always be there to reassure him, like, You're just big boned.

Kyle Risi: Yeah, just tell them that, you're rubber, and I'm glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you, or whatever it is, did I mix that up? Yeah. Whatever, sticks back to me. 

Kyle Risi: So apparently Francis and Archie's household was just filled with with Filipino house boys just wandering around. Why would that be Kyle?

Kyle Risi: What do you think? Because they have a very messy house in a way that only Filipino boys can clean. Okay fine. This is like their house is run with Filipino standards Adam. Okay.

Kyle Risi: But together they were extremely sociable, extremely infectious and people really loved them. Just before their trip on the Titanic, but was in the middle of, but Archibut was in the middle of a political fight between Taft and Roosevelt at the time.

Kyle Risi: And it was causing him a lot of stress. So Francis suggested that they just travel to Europe for a bit of a holiday. There is a letter that Frances actually wrote to a friend on board the Titanic saying like, she has everything but taxi cabs.

Kyle Risi: She has restaurants, a la carte, gymnasiums, Turkish baths, squash courts, palm gardens, smoking rooms for the ladies and the gents. They even have a A riding machine in the gym. Riding? As in like a Like a buckly horse thing. And that's in the gym? Yeah, but it's like more gentle. And it's just kind of really good for the thighs apparently.

Kyle Risi: They have dining saloons, lounges, cafes, quarters for first class dogs. They even have the world's first swimming pool on board as well. Really? Did it? So, it sounds like they were having a whale of a time. Sadly, when the Titanic sinks, they both drown, and President Taft is so devastated that he orders all flags on federal buildings to fly in half mast, which just goes to show how close they were.

Adam Cox: Yeah, yeah, okay, well that's sad. I can't believe the Titanic was the first to have a swimming pool. Mm. 

Kyle Risi: Well, according to what I read. Okay. It could be a lie. I like how you said that. Oh, okay, according to what you read. It could be lied. So another high profile passenger was Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon, a prominent English aristocrat and a sportsman who was a fencer for England at one point.

Kyle Risi: But more impressive than him was his wife, Lady Duff Gordon, who started a world renowned lingerie business, owning a set of boutiques under the name of Madame Lucille. 

Kyle Risi: So Lucy began her fashion business after a messy divorce from her husband, which forced her to return to work. And Her knickers and undergarments became so popular amongst royalty in high society that that helped her kind of like break into the world of the millionaires.

Kyle Risi: And soon after this, she had opened up a boutique in the Waldorf Story Hotel, which of course is owned by the Asser family. And so it was very much like whisper, whisper, ooh, la, la. Like she was like the Victoria Secret of the day, hugely popular. 

Adam Cox: So like, um, she would go up to a woman and be like, Hey, I can get you some sexy garters.

Adam Cox: And she opens up her coat. Come with 

Kyle Risi: me. And there's some like knickers. Yeah. Essentially, yes. So next we have D. W. So he was a British journalist and an editor who became one of the youngest newspaper editors in Britain at just the age of 22. Obviously by the time he got into the Titanic he was a lot older.

Kyle Risi: But he famously published an expose on called the Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon, which basically exposed child prostitution in London and helped like pass tougher laws. Now while writing his pieces, he went out to prove how easy it was to kind of access child prostitutes, which led him to get arrested.

Adam Cox: But was he trying to prove a point? Or was he actually getting involved? 

Kyle Risi: I think no, I think he was trying to prove a point how easy it was. It's like, it's like I, I respect that because like you are investigative journalists. You need to get into it, right?

Kyle Risi: You need to get in the firing line. It's like a war correspondent. You get on the ground in the firing line to give people a sense of what it's like and that's what he done. He went off to prove how easy it was to access child prostitutes. He got arrested but at the end of the day it shone a light in the right places making him basically a huge hero to the British working class, but What's fascinating is that he was also a spiritualist.

Kyle Risi: So one evening his daughter, Estelle, she was in her bedroom when a man walked in, took off his hat, sat down at her desk and started writing poetry. So she goes over and she's like, what are you doing in my bedroom? And he didn't say anything, he just completely ignored her and then he vanished.

Kyle Risi: So the same thing happened the next night, and the next night, and she mentions this to her father. He is convinced it was a ghost. So he gives, so he gives her a device called a spirit indicator which of course is used for communicating with ghosts and Estelle uses it and it turns out that the spirit was the spirit of a poet called Gordon Knight.

Kyle Risi: And do you know what? They become lifelong friends. So when her father dies in the Titanic, Estelle's Gordon would pass messages between Estelle and her dad, like letting her know that he was okay in the spirit world. Interesting. Isn't that cute? Yeah. 

Adam Cox: Load of shit though. Yeah, I don't know if I buy it, but that's a nice story.

Adam Cox: It's 

Kyle Risi: a wonderful story.

Kyle Risi: So being on board as a first class passenger was just brilliant. Another letter describes it as just exquisite. The rooms are larger than ordinary hotel rooms, much more luxurious. They've got wooden, bedsteads, dressing tables, hot and cold water. They've got electric fans and electric heaters.

Kyle Risi: And first class passengers, they were even able to select their preferred bed on board as well. So you can select between Regency Anne's to King Louis Cannes beds, like whatever you wanted, you can have it. And throughout the entire ship, the White Star logo is printed on literally everything from the crockery cutlery . Everything on board is state of the art. So for example, for like meals, they would offer oysters, salmon, lamb, roast duck, and beef. And remember Adam, that's significant because this is unlike anything anyone had seen before, because up until now, food like this would have just gone bad, 

Adam Cox: right?

Kyle Risi: But the ship had a new invention on board, and that was refrigeration. And this meant that it was possible to even serve things like strawberries in the middle of the Atlantic. 

Adam Cox: That's cool. I didn't realize again, another first for the Titanic. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, incredible. 

Kyle Risi: So did you know that there were second class passengers on the Titanic? 

Kyle Risi: Um, it doesn't really ring a bell, I think maybe it's the film makes me think more of like the first class and obviously those which are, you know, below decks and stuff like that.

Kyle Risi: Yeah, So a smaller group of passengers often overlooked in the retelling of the story are the second class passengers. And these were people that were your typical clergymen, your teachers, your shop owners, clerks, and even the servants and chauffeurs to the first class.

Kyle Risi: And it's interesting that you don't often hear much about these people, though they formed one of the largest percentages of those who died. And I guess it's because, as a metaphor, the Titanic is more powerful when it is told through that lens of the haves and the have nots, not the people in the middle.

Kyle Risi: So the standards for second class passengers were great. Like, it is what you would expect from an Agatha Christie novel. Not super luxurious, but still better than what you would find in other second class hotels in Europe and in the United States, and certainly on any other ship at the 

Kyle Risi: Among the second class passengers were a group of Cornish miners who were off to kind of the Michigan copper belts to kind of make their fortunes. 

Kyle Risi: Included was a confectioner named Henry Morley from Worcester who was kind of running off with his 19 year old lover Kate Phillips. 

Kyle Risi: But also a Lancashire carrot and potato salesman named Harry Formthorpe was also running off with his mistress, Lizzie Wilkins.

Adam Cox: That feels quite niche. It is very niche. You've got to niche down, man. If you want to stand out in this world. Yeah. I feel like, you know, you could be just a grocer or whatever, but no, he's just specialized in carrots. 

Kyle Risi: But it's weird that there's quite a few passengers that were running off with their lovers.

Adam Cox: Yeah. I guess just escape and yeah. Find a new life in New York. 

Kyle Risi: Another passenger called Michael Navratil, he was on board because he had kidnapped his children from his wife in Nice following their divorce and he was making a getaway to the USA and he had left her a note saying you will never see the children again, but never fear about them. They will be in good hands. He actually survives the sinking of the Titanic. And he then later becomes a French philosopher professor living right into his 70s. 

Adam Cox: Does his kids survive? 

Kyle Risi: I don't know. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, because that feels like, oh, 

Kyle Risi: you'll never see them again. I imagine they did survive because a large portion of kids kind of didn't, did survive.

Adam Cox: Yeah, good point. 

Kyle Risi: There was also one black man traveling on the Titanic. His name was Joseph Laroche and he was a brilliant engineer and he had gone to Paris to study and he ended up getting married to a French woman and they end up having two daughters together. But the French were just extremely racist towards him and his family.

Kyle Risi: And finally, he just had enough to leave after getting a job offer as a math teacher from his uncle who, at the time, was the president of Haihiti. And because his wife was pregnant at the time, they wanted to kind of get to Haihiti before she gave birth. And that's how they came to be second class passengers in the Titanic. 

Kyle Risi: Another passenger from outside of Europe was a Japanese man named Matsubami Hosono. 

Adam Cox: Didn't completely butcher that one, I don't think. 

Kyle Risi: Thank you! I tried. I'm not quite sure if I got it correct though. But basically, he was a civil servant and he was studying the Russian railway system in Russia. And he was booked on the Titanic because he was traveling back to Japan, across the Atlantic, over America, and then onto Japan from the Pacific Ocean. 

Adam Cox: Oh, so that's that way around. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, it was going overland. Yeah. Now we're going to come back to them in the second episode after the Titanic finally hits the iceberg because their stories are really, really fascinating.

Kyle Risi: But There was also a Mennonite missionary on board named, and I love this name, Clemer Funk. And she'd been on a mission teaching young girls in India, and she was traveling back home to see her ill father.

Kyle Risi: So to get to the Titanic, like, she traveled all the way to Bombay, then from Bombay to London to then board on to the Titanic. So she's had one hell of a journey as well.

Kyle Risi: Another possible gay couple in second class was Lucy Temple and Amita Shelley. Now they claimed that they were mother and daughter, but it was very clear that they were a couple apparently.

Kyle Risi: Why, what were they doing? So this is how another passenger describes them in one of their correspondence. An older woman from the Malua stables and racetracks traveling with a younger woman from the Drabus convict settlements should arouse mistrust. One imagines Lucy Temple with a rasping voice and skin like dirty leather and Amita Shelley with a sharp pixie face and a lashing tongue.

Adam Cox: Okay. 

Kyle Risi: They were just really unapproachable, I guess. And that's what, that makes them lesbians? I think it was just other signs. Okay. Whether they were lesbians. 

Adam Cox: Fine. Interesting. I love how they describe this mistrust. Mistrust. Should 

Kyle Risi: arouse mistrust. 

Adam Cox: I might use that in, uh, yeah, everyday language now. 

Kyle Risi: What, for other gays?

Kyle Risi: What? There's a couple men over there that should arouse mistrust. Yes. Uh, okay. So then, Adam, we now come to our third class passengers. Now regarding the titanic being an immigration ship There was this belief that it was barricaded off to prevent kind of third class from bothering the first class passengers 

Adam Cox: Yeah, yeah, 

Kyle Risi: However, the real reason wasn't out of concern for first class passengers. It was because, remember, the Titanic was an immigration ship.

Kyle Risi: So the US immigration demanded barriers to prevent contagious diseases from entering into the US. So when the Titanic was due to arrive in New York City, all immigrants were supposed to go through border control on Ellis Island to be inspected for lice and process all their paperwork and so on.

Kyle Risi: So there was this widely held belief that the That steerage, or third class, was just this awful place, like, infested with rats and they were fed gruel.

Kyle Risi: But, in the 1997 film, they do an incredible job of depicting what it was actually like, and in truth, Adam. It was probably the best time that many third class passengers had probably had in their entire life. Obviously, until everything went wrong. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, for a couple of days they had a really nice time.

Adam Cox: Yeah. Um, so is it kind of like for them, I don't know, staying at a Premier Inn? 

Adam Cox: Yeah, I see. Yeah, I guess if they're from working class background maybe living in the city Yeah, this would be quite yeah a treat for them running water. 

Kyle Risi: Normally ships would cram third class passengers in like sardines, but on the Titanic They were a under capacity anyway, but there was just a lot more privacy for passengers Anyway, like single women and families.

Kyle Risi: They were separated from couples and single men in different kind of sections of the ship All cabins had wash basins. They were well ventilated with fans that were made in Belfast There were huge open communal showers and baths Completely the opposite of what other liners normally did which because they would normally keep these locked So if you wanted access to them It had to be at a particular time when they were open or you had to go and ask for the key

Kyle Risi: Passengers also had full access to smoking rooms and bars As well as wide open dining saloons as well It really was a measure of the relative degree of luxury on board, especially in comparison to other ships of the day. 

Adam Cox: How much did it cost for someone, yeah, that was traveling across as an immigrant?

Adam Cox: Oh, I don't know. I

Kyle Risi: should have checked that. 

Adam Cox: Okay, fine. You know, I guess it's affordable to some degree. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, it was affordable to a third class passenger. 

Adam Cox: Fine. 

Kyle Risi: Almost all of the third class passengers were traveling to emigrate to the USA and these people weren't just taking trips for holidays or for work. They were looking to make better lives for themselves and out of the 712 third class passengers, interestingly, only 118 were British, 113 were Irish, but strangely, 191 of those people were Scandinavians and they were split between the Swedes, the Finns and Norwegians and seven Danes.

Kyle Risi: And many parts of Scandinavia at the time were extremely poor at the turn of the 20th century. So these people were looking to migrate to Minnesota in the Midwest, where they were hoping to become farmers on the prairies. So again, they were looking for a better life. There were very few like Eastern European Jews on board because at the time there was a lot of discrimination against Jews throughout Europe and the White Star Line actively discouraged them from traveling because other passengers didn't want them on board.

Kyle Risi: And White Star claimed that their untidiness, and rudeness made them unpopular to have on board. 

Adam Cox: They're horrible. Right. So White Star was anti semitic then. 

Kyle Risi: They were, but also remember they were trying to prioritize comfort of their passengers who didn't like the Jews. But yes, I mean they're all contributing to this. Yeah. That's not to say that there weren't Jewish passengers on board because for the Jewish passengers that were on board, the White Star line provided kosher food. 

Adam Cox: Okay.

Kyle Risi: And speaking of food, by the way, like, the food for third class passengers was by all accounts great, like, many had never had this much food when they were on the Titanic. Like, they were getting three meals a day, Adam, and that wasn't the norm for many of the passengers that were on board. They would have been served porridge, toast, marmalade, fish, boiled potato, boiled potatoes.

Kyle Risi: And this might sound like drag food to us today, but the important thing is, it was warm, it was filling, it was nutritious, right? And probably quite exotic to some, like someone from Armenia, for example, they probably had never tried marmalade in their entire life. 

Adam Cox: Mmm, yeah, you kind of take that for granted now, but back then that was kind of like probably a lot of new experiences. 

Kyle Risi: Absolutely, and they're getting consistent three meals a day, so they're probably loving it.

Kyle Risi: So the bad reputation that third class had gotten over the years just wasn't true at all. It was spacious, it was open, it was not cramped, and the food was filling, nutritious, and even exotic in some cases. 

Kyle Risi: So out of the passengers that were on board in third class, There were 20 Croats on board. One notable passenger was a guy called, Nikolai Lulik. He acted as a chaperone and interpreter for the others because many of them just couldn't speak english. So it was common for them to travel together with kind of like a more experienced person. 

Kyle Risi: So in nicolas lulik's case he would often shuttle back and forth chaperoning Kind of croatians to the united states to help them start their new lives. So I think that's quite noble I guess you can make a job out of that considering how many people were coming to america every year 

Kyle Risi: There were also around about 30 Armenians traveling from a region that we now know as Lebanon today. And at the time, the Ottoman Empire was making it very difficult for Armenians and other minorities in that area to kind of have like any meaningful kind of existence whatsoever.

Kyle Risi: On top of this, a lot of Armenians, they were silk farming at the time, and the price of silk had just collapsed and there was just no demand for it. Also various areas at the time were just being kind of constantly invaded by Kurdish brigands resulting in like loads of Armenians being slaughtered by the tens of thousands.

Kyle Risi: And so those that could get out, they would get out and they would go to places like the USA. And the thing is, though, that What was happening in this area now would later become known as the Armenian genocide where millions of Armenians were being slaughtered every year. And it was these people that could get out there were like making their way across to the United States.

 The important thing for me to point out here is that the common thread among many of these third class passengers was immigration from a different part of Eurasia and some were going to stay in America permanently while others were planning on returning just a few years later remitting money back home.

Kyle Risi: For instance, and that was a big thing as well, remitting money back home. So you go off, you work in the United States, you send a little bit of money to grandma, that was huge. And many countries relied on that. Croatia and Greece were increasingly becoming dependent on people sending money back home. 

Kyle Risi: So for many passengers in third class, the idea was. That when they arrived in New York, they would enter into these migrant networks where a community of people would help them find a place to live. They would help them find work. They would help them navigate all the necessary paperwork to help them start their new lives. And I love this part of the Titanic story because it really does serve as a window into the various kind of aspects of international life at the early 20, 20th century. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess you don't realize maybe the size of the opportunity of emigrating at that time. Yeah. And what, yeah, why people needed to do that. 

Kyle Risi: They had to do it. It was either that or you die in many cases. Yeah. And people, they want the best for their family. They want to give their children a better start in life. And that's the thing that was driving all of this. So it was massive, massive business at the 

Adam Cox: time. It must have seemed really exciting. Well, for some, scary. They didn't want to leave maybe. But. For some I imagine just going to America you've never heard like you you've heard of it but you don't you haven't seen it on tv or anything like that so you have no preconception and then to get there and sort of see something like that that must have been like life changing.

Kyle Risi: And then hopefully to get all this correspondence back as well from people that are already there saying like I've got a farm and um I've got my own crop and I've made some money and I've met a wife and people want some of that for themselves especially when they're in a situation where. They just can't get ahead.

Adam Cox: I wonder what the population was back then, because now it's what? 350, 60 million in America, or North America. So I wonder what it was back then for them needing all these immigrants and stuff, whereas now they probably don't need that. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, no, they certainly don't want them now, do they? Yeah. The way they keep going on. 

Adam Cox: So I just, yeah, I wonder what it was like back then and how busy it was. 

Kyle Risi: Yeah, they quickly forgot what made them such a great country. Yeah. Was the immigration. Yeah.

Kyle Risi: Yeah, so the thing that unifies all these passages is that they were striving to find a better life, which I just think is just so sad . 

Kyle Risi: So before we end today's episode, I want to tell you about a very sad story that really got me when I read it, and it's about the Goldsmith family from Rochester.

Kyle Risi: So Frank Goldsmith, his wife Emily, and their young son Frankie were moving to Detroit after their younger son had died from diphtheria. 1911. With them. They were taking the younger brother of a friend of theirs who was already in the United States and his name was Alfie Rush.

Kyle Risi: And Alfie was just 15 at the time. Mm-Hmm. and Alfie would celebrate his 16th birthday. On Sunday the 14th of April. That would be the last day of the Titanic's voyage. 

Adam Cox: Right, okay. 

Kyle Risi: On the morning of the 14th, the goldsmiths gave him a pair of long trousers that signified that he was now becoming a man. Alfred was so proud. He was just gleaming from ear to ear. When you see pictures of him, he's quite a small kid anyway. So this is a big thing for him to now kind of be seen and be recognized as transitioning into a man when he didn't really look like one anyway because he was quite small. 

Adam Cox: And why trousers? Like, was he only allowed to wear shorts up until this point? Exactly. Really? 

Kyle Risi: Yeah. It was a thing, like, when you get given your first pair of trousers, it's a symbol that you've turned into a man. So, of course, that evening when the Titanic was sinking, Alfred refused his spot on a lifeboat, saying that he was now a man, and that he should stay with the men, effectively sealing his fate.

Adam Cox: Wow, that's a, isn't that 

Kyle Risi: horrifying? 

Adam Cox: A 16-year-old, I mean, you're still a child at that point. You are. I'm sure. They would've been like, no, come on, you can get on this bike. Geez,

Kyle Risi: they did. And he said that, and he refused because he was like 16. Like, I'm, I'm a man now. I'm gonna stay behind. 

Kyle Risi: And that is the story of the origin of the Titanic. The world in which it was born into some of the more notable passengers from first class, third class, and of course, the often overlooked second class passengers. 

Adam Cox: Yeah, all these different stories, like, it's quite fascinating, they're all got, yeah, different stories to tell, their backgrounds, and how some survived, some didn't, some were there by sheer luck, accident, some, yeah, how, how crazy.

Kyle Risi: It's crazy, and I just wish I could tell a lot more of these, but there just isn't time, but there are literally thousands and thousands of stories, because this is the most captivating story Of the last century, right? 

Kyle Risi: So adam the titanic is just about to sail across the atlantic ocean. And this is where I think we should leave it for today, because next week when we return I will outline the events that led up to that fateful evening on the 15th of April, 1912, where the Titanic sank beneath the waves. 

Kyle Risi: Of course, if you can't wait a whole seven days for the next episode to drop, you can listen to it today by visiting us on Patreon and accessing this episode a whole week early.

Kyle Risi: Also, we're going to leave listener mail until next week. 

Kyle Risi: So we have to wait to see if you get read out then. 

Kyle Risi: Yes. Yes. But yeah, should we run the outro? 

Adam Cox: Let's do it.

Kyle Risi: And so that's another episode of the Compendium Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please follow us on your favorite podcast app.

Kyle Risi: It really helps us a lot. We now release episodes seven days early on Patreon. It's completely free to access, so don't let the subscribe prompt for you if one episode isn't enough, and you're craving our entire backlog of unreleased episodes, consider subscribing as a certified freak.

Kyle Risi: You'll get access to all of our backlog episodes, exclusive posts, and what we're up to. We'd love for you to join us and have a chat. 

Kyle Risi: We release new episodes every Tuesday, and until then, remember, even the grandest of dreams can sink without a trace.

Kyle Risi: See you next time. 

Adam Cox: See ya. 


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Kyle Risi

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Adam Cox

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