Anna Delvey: From Rags to Riches to Rikers, New Yorks Fake Heiress

In this episode of the Compendium, we are diving into part two of our female scammer series where I tell Adam all about Anna Delvey, New York's infamous fake heiress. 

Originally born Anna Sorokin in Russia, Anna set out to take what she wanted and nothing was going to stand in her way, not even being poor.   We recount Annas first initial appearance in the glittering social scene, her ambitions plans to secure funding for the “Anna Delvey Foundation: For Kids that Can’t Read Good”, to her dramatic downfall and the media frenzy that was her trial!

 Anna’s story blurs the lines between ambition and deception, is it okay to fake it until you make it? 

We give you the Compendium, but if you want more, then check out these great resources:

1. "My Friend Anna" by Rachel DeLoach Williams
2. "How Anna Delvey Tricked New York’s Party People" by Jessica Pressler
5. "Inventing Anna" Netflix mini series

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Credits:

• Hosts: Kyle Risi & Adam Cox
• Intro and Outro Music: Alice in dark Wonderland by Aleksey Chistilin
• All the Latest Things Intro: Clowns by Giulio Fazio

Chapters

• 0:00 Sneak peak
• 1:06 Welcome to The Compendium
• 6:24 All the latest things
• 15:45 Topic of the week
• 1:13:50 Outro

Transcript

[EPISODE 62] Anna Delvey: From Rags to Riches to Rikers, New Yorks Fake Heiress

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi:  They assume that she's just checked into another hotel, but the truth was that she was hiring cars and just sleeping in them because she'd essentially been blacklisted from all the hotels in New York City.

[00:00:11] Adam Cox: Mmm, how the mighty have fallen. 

[00:00:13] Adam Cox: So she can't charge anything to her room anymore. So she's just eating at restaurants and just leaving without paying the bill. And this ends up catching up with her because eventually a few days later, after her little intervention she's arrested for trying to run out on paying a restaurant bill.

[00:00:29] Adam Cox: Bitch, just go to Taco Bell. 

[00:00:31] Adam Cox: You don't have to go to a fancy restaurant. I bet that doesn't even, like, cross her mind. I reckon she always It 

[00:00:37] Kyle Risi: should! Bitch, you're broke! 

[00:00:40] Kyle Risi: [00:01:00] Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. We're a podcast where each week I tell Adam Cox all about a topic I think you'll find both fascinating and intriguing. We dive into stories pulled from the darker corners of true crime, the annuls of your old unread history books and the who's who of extraordinary people.

[00:01:27] Kyle Risi: We give you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. 

[00:01:32] Kyle Risi: Of course, I'm your host this week, Kyle Risi. 

[00:01:34] Adam Cox: And I'm your co host, Adam Cox. 

[00:01:36] Kyle Risi: And on today's episode of The Compendium, we are diving into an assembly of illusions, indulgences, and the incredible saga of a swindler in the city.

[00:01:48] Adam Cox: It's Anna Delvey. It's 

[00:01:49] Kyle Risi: Anna delvey week, baby! 

[00:01:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, well, you gave the clue last week, so this week I definitely know what we're talking about. 

[00:01:55] Kyle Risi: That's true, and I'm so excited about today's episode because last week, of course, we [00:02:00] gave you the rundown of the original queen of the scam. 

[00:02:03] Adam Cox: Cassie Chadwick. 

[00:02:04] Kyle Risi: she was, of course, a woman from the 1800s who managed to dupe a bunch of rich bankers across Cleveland into handing over millions of dollars in loans and the reason why they did this was because of course they believed that she was the daughter of Andrew Carnegie, one of the richest men in the world at the time. So last week's story laid the groundwork for the start of today's episode because Cassie Chadwick was the woman who ran so that today's fierce female con artist could walk. 

[00:02:37] Kyle Risi: Today, I'm giving you the compendium of the fake German heiress Anna Delvey, a girl who managed to trick everyone into believing that she was the heiress to a massive 80 million fortune. As a result, she was living out of some of the world's most exclusive hotels, Eating at the best restaurants, socialising with the richest people, all while actually having no money to her name, [00:03:00] what? a bit like us. Her lies were so convincing, Adam, that she came incredibly close to a bank, actually giving her 25 million in terms of loans before the entire scam came tumbling down around her.

[00:03:17] Kyle Risi: And remember, we talked about how easy it was in Cassie's day for a bank to just dole you out some money. This is a time now when there are checks, there are balances, there's CCTV, there's order trails, there's bank accounts, there's everything. 

[00:03:32] Adam Cox: So what you're saying is don't be put off.

[00:03:35] Adam Cox: We can possibly make it work. 

[00:03:36] Kyle Risi: We can still do this. Like it's still possible if Cassie Chadwick could do it all the way back then . And if Anna Delvey can take inspiration from that. Then why can't we do it today? 

[00:03:45] Adam Cox: Great, so this should be an inspiring story. It should be, it's an 

[00:03:48] Kyle Risi: inspiring story for anyone out there who wants to be a bit of a, a little toe rag con artist.

[00:03:54] Adam Cox: Yeah, and a few do's and don'ts along the way. 

[00:03:57] Kyle Risi: It's a playbook of how to be a con artist. But the [00:04:00] thing is, that even though Anna got busted, she is completely unapologetic. And I think that's something that has to be admired. Because what she did, to many, was the most American thing that anyone could possibly do. It's all about, you walk the walk, you talk the talk, and you do whatever it takes to make it.

[00:04:19] Kyle Risi: So today's story calls into question that fine line between scamming people and faking it until you make it. 

[00:04:28] Kyle Risi: This is the story of Anna Delvey and her huge set of giant bollocks. 

[00:04:35] Adam Cox: Metaphorical bollocks, I assume. 

[00:04:37] Kyle Risi: I hope so. So what do you know about the story, Adam?

[00:04:40] Adam Cox: My main understanding comes from the TV show, so who knows if some of it's been fabricated, but the, what's it called, Anna Delvey? 

[00:04:48] Kyle Risi: Uh, Inventing Anna. 

[00:04:49] Adam Cox: Inventing Anna, which starred, ah, what's her name, from, um, Ozarks. 

[00:04:53] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm, Julia Garner. 

[00:04:54] Adam Cox: Yes, yeah. Uh, and she does an incredible job of playing her because I think her accent, she has [00:05:00] this really unique way of pronunciation, which you can't really tell where she's from because you sent German heiress. I was like, she was German. 

[00:05:09] Kyle Risi: This is the thing though, when an actress is so good and they get really into the damn part and they're a proper method actor and they delve into the actual details and they get spot on. Because the character is so nuanced it makes it come across as if Julie Garner has done a bad job, because like, who speaks like that? But she actually spoke like that! She did an amazing job! 

[00:05:28] Adam Cox: It's almost like Larger Than Life or a bit of a caricature, but that is how she spoke in her interviews, isn't it?

[00:05:33] Kyle Risi: That's it! 

[00:05:35] Adam Cox: So crazy. Yeah. 

[00:05:36] Kyle Risi: And in terms of like, how much of the story was fabricated, Well, Shonda Rhimes, the woman that, uh, produced Inventing Anna got their first account stories from a couple of people that were directly involved in Anna's life.

[00:05:48] Adam Cox: It's one of her friends, right? 

[00:05:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's right,. So, both of them went off, they wrote a kind of a memoir. One of them was, Rebecca who ended up losing like 60, 000 bucks. And the other [00:06:00] friend, the concierge, who was working in the hotel, she wrote an article and that then inspired Shonda Rhimes to make a TV show out of that.

[00:06:10] Kyle Risi: So it's first hand kind of account of the story, so it's really exciting. 

[00:06:15] Adam Cox: Cool, I'm excited to revisit this because it's been a while and it's such a good story. Okay. 

[00:06:20] Kyle Risi: It is the best story, but before we get started, of course, it is time for 

[00:06:26] Adam Cox: all the latest things 

[00:06:32] Kyle Risi: this is the segment of our show where we catch up on all the latest things that we discovered over the last seven days from weird news to mind boggling facts This week it's Adam's turn to go first. So here we go. What have you got for us today, Adam? 

[00:06:45] Adam Cox: So I've got two bits of news this week and they're both animal related actually.

[00:06:50] Adam Cox: So my first bit is actually an update from a story I broke. Yeah, breaking news. Brand new information! Uh, [00:07:00] well, yeah, I can't remember what episode it was, but it was about, do you remember the alligator? who was denied entry into a baseball game. 

[00:07:07] Kyle Risi: WALLY? 

[00:07:08] Adam Cox: Wally. Yeah, what's 

[00:07:09] Kyle Risi: happened to Wally? How's he getting on? 

[00:07:11] Adam Cox: Wally, the emotional, uh, support animal. That's it, yeah. Well, he's missing. He has gone missing. What do you mean? Well his owner, um, who needs him for emotional support, um, has reported that he's gone missing when they're on vacation in Georgia.

[00:07:26] Kyle Risi: So he takes him literally A wild animal has 

[00:07:27] Adam Cox: gone missing. Yeah, literally takes him everywhere. And he was behind, I think, a pretty significant outdoor enclosure, wherever they were vacationing. And someone must have, like, broken in and stolen Wally. And so his, the owners pleaded, anyone know where he is?

[00:07:44] Adam Cox: Because there could be an alligator. 

[00:07:45] Kyle Risi: Is there a reward for him? 

[00:07:47] Adam Cox: Uh, I don't think so at this stage. 

[00:07:49] Kyle Risi: Man! Do you know what? At the same time, he is an alligator, he is a wild animal. What comes to mind is, that meme video of that woman who is showing off she finds a wild duck and she's like, [00:08:00] This is my pet duck Adam and he's going for his first swim and she puts him in the water and then he's just like pisses off like as fast as he possibly can.

[00:08:08] Kyle Risi: She's like,

[00:08:11] Kyle Risi: It's a wild animal. Wally has done the same. He's been put down. He's okay, this is my time to escape and he's pissed off. 

[00:08:17] Adam Cox: Maybe that's it. Maybe it's just like, that's it. I've got, I've got a way out. It's his own sort of Shawshank Redemption, where he's tunneled his way out of this enclosure.

[00:08:26] Kyle Risi: Is he Morgan Freeman? Yeah. Oh! 

[00:08:28] Adam Cox: Um, so yeah, but if you're in Georgia, then just keep on the lookout. 

[00:08:33] Kyle Risi: So that's a shame. Yeah. You need to keep us updated. 

[00:08:35] Adam Cox: Will do. So if there's any more news I find on Wally, I will keep our listeners updated because everyone's, you know, great attached to him. 

[00:08:42] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I need him for emotional support. What else you got for us? 

[00:08:46] Adam Cox: Well, the next bit is more positive news. It's about an orangutan. A Sumatran orangutan? A Sumatran. Oh yeah, sure, that. I don't know. But [00:09:00] some scientists have observed that this particular orangutan had been self medicating with these leaves. I think it's the first time that an animal has ever been seen in the wild. giving them treatment for a condition they have.

[00:09:15] Kyle Risi: So not drug taking? Not drug taking. Oh, I'm a bit sick. Yeah. So I want to get a bit high. 

[00:09:19] Adam Cox: Well, what happened was these, humans or scientists, they had noticed a gash on the orangutan's face. Right. Probably from some fight. And within a couple of days, they had seen the same orangutan. Getting this particular, leaf, or whatever, which they know has medicinal purposes.

[00:09:37] Adam Cox: Sure. And was chewing these leaves, but wasn't swallowing them, it was chewing them and getting, the sap or the juice out of it. Yeah, yeah. And then rubbing it on his wound. 

[00:09:45] Kyle Risi: That's a whole new level. 

[00:09:46] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:09:46] Kyle Risi: Chewing on them, fine. 

[00:09:47] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:09:48] Kyle Risi: But actually wiping it on it. 

[00:09:49] Adam Cox: Yeah, so he didn't swallow it, so he's wiping it, and then within a couple of days, it healed just to a small scar. Wow. So, it. It made them think that must be something that they have understood or learned all [00:10:00] this time. They know how to treat these kind of conditions. An orangutan. 

[00:10:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's really cool actually. How do we know, because primates are really, really vain animals, how do we know it wasn't just making a face mask? Like, do you know what? What a beauty treatment. Kids are away with their dad this week. Mama's gonna have some, a bit of swamp water and she's gonna put on a face mask.

[00:10:19] Adam Cox: It's a good question, I don't know if we'll ever truly know that, but I think it's the first time that they know that particular plant definitely has this healing property. Yeah. So they just, from that, they think well, it must be intelligent enough to know what to 

[00:10:31] Kyle Risi: It's crazy, isn't it? I am so fascinated by, the great apes and primates and things like that. They're just so incredible. And their potential is there as well to learn so many weird things. I did hear this really incredible fact the other day that if you give an orangutan a iPad, it will interact with it. And so will a lot of other primates, a, iPad to a gorilla and it will have no interest. 

[00:10:58] Adam Cox: Interesting. 

[00:10:58] Kyle Risi: Isn't that strange? 

[00:10:59] Adam Cox: [00:11:00] Yeah, so only certain primates will react with that or know what to do. Yeah. Intelligence, I guess. 

[00:11:05] Kyle Risi: Yeah, but the thing is though, gorillas are also quite intelligent in their own right, because there's that really famous gorilla that they learnt how to sign language. And they actually gave this gorilla, who was like living in captivity, I think her name was Coco. They gave her a kitten, and she loved this kitten so much. And, um, I believe she broke the sink in her room one day, and using sign language, she blamed the kitten. Yeah, I doubt that cat's broken that sink.

[00:11:31] Adam Cox: Yeah. That's pretty impressive, yeah. 

[00:11:34] Kyle Risi: Cool, so, my all the latest things for this week. So, you know whenever time we're out and about and we pass this one store, I always lose my mind. Because I just find it so insufferable. What's that store? 

[00:11:45] Adam Cox: Oh, God. Oh, what was it? We were in London and you said about it.

[00:11:48] Adam Cox: Oh, it's that sports brand, isn't it? Uh, Lululemon. Lululemon. Yeah. 

[00:11:53] Kyle Risi: And it's just because it's so expensive. And I don't want to walk down the street and [00:12:00] see a woman wearing leggings with literally her bum cheeks are cut in half. Like, it's literally in there. She's wearing a legging thong, basically.

[00:12:08] Adam Cox: I don't think it's exclusive to Lululemons, but why have you got this hate for Lululemon in particular? It's 

[00:12:13] Kyle Risi: just because, like, it just keeps popping up and it just seems insufferable and it's very expensive. And there are people starving out there in the world, but anyway, forget it. 

[00:12:23] Adam Cox: Forget about those starving people.

[00:12:25] Kyle Risi: Why do you think it's called Lululemon? 

[00:12:27] Adam Cox: I have no idea. 

[00:12:28] Kyle Risi: Racism. 

[00:12:29] Adam Cox: Racism. 

[00:12:30] Kyle Risi: Yeah. How did that even come about? So, the name Lululemon was chosen by the company founder, Chip Wilson, primarily, it was so it could appeal to the Japanese consumers. Japanese consumers are attracted to any Western brand names with the letter L in it. To them, it's iconically Western to have the kind of the alliteration of the L's in there because it's famously a syllable that Asian cultures can't really pronounce.

[00:12:59] Kyle Risi: [00:13:00] Oh, interesting. So Wilson deliberately said that he played with the alliteration names with the L's in them until he obviously came up with Lululemon, believing it would sound more authentically North American.

[00:13:11] Kyle Risi: But in interviews, he openly admitted that he chose the name Lululemon because it's funny to watch them try and say it, referring to the difficulty Japanese people have pronouncing the letter L. That's 

[00:13:21] Adam Cox: my That's horrendous. That is 

[00:13:23] Kyle Risi: horrendous, isn't it? So that's another black mark against Lululemon for me.

[00:13:27] Adam Cox: Yeah, to be fair, now I can, now I'm going to jump on that bandwagon. Before I thought it was just overpriced, but that's terrible. 

[00:13:33] Kyle Risi: Yeah, bloody hell. And the thing is though, it's super successful in Japan, and he's making millions and millions of dollars. Off of this brand, but the undertone is that he is a racist piece of shit and he set it up deliberately to, because it sounded funny.

[00:13:50] Adam Cox: Yeah, do the Japanese know this, do you reckon? 

[00:13:54] Kyle Risi: Well, they do now. 

[00:13:56] Adam Cox: What, um, what publication reported this? 

[00:13:58] Kyle Risi: I got it from a TikTok somewhere, [00:14:00] so obviously it's real.

[00:14:01] Adam Cox: Well, fact checked.

[00:14:04] Kyle Risi: Talking about like TikTok, in nine months time, the owners of TikTok, they have to find an American buyer by law. Otherwise, that's it. Google and Apple are going to be compelled by law to ban it from the app stores.

[00:14:17] Adam Cox: In America though, it's only in North America, right? 

[00:14:20] Kyle Risi: I wouldn't be surprised if it then also filters to some of the other European countries, certainly in the UK might be the same thing. And the reason why this is happening is because the Chinese government has a tendency to influence Chinese companies and This isn't some kind of conspiracy theory.

[00:14:36] Kyle Risi: This has been known to happen. Like the government will get involved in various businesses if it benefits him in some way. So the thinking here is that TikTok, a place where millions of young Americans get their news from, could potentially be quietly influenced by China to show versions of the world that the Chinese government want young Americans to see.

[00:14:56] Kyle Risi: And so to America, this is worrisome. As a result, Congress [00:15:00] and the President have passed into law that the platform needs to find an American buyer within nine months, otherwise face being banned. 

[00:15:09] Adam Cox: That seems just so corrupt in the sense of doing that, like, oh, it has to be in an American bio. Mm hmm. Which doesn't, it's kind of like, well, how is that better?

[00:15:18] Kyle Risi: Just as bad as the CCP, isn't it? 

[00:15:20] Adam Cox: Yeah, how do we know that your American government isn't going to influence 

[00:15:23] Kyle Risi: things? Ah, exactly, ah, totally, totally, you're right. We need 

[00:15:25] Adam Cox: someone in, like, we need some penguins in Antarctica running the show.

[00:15:29] Adam Cox: Um, 

[00:15:29] Kyle Risi: yeah, probably. Totally. Wise move. 

[00:15:32] Adam Cox: You should be in politics. They're really neutral. 

[00:15:34] Kyle Risi: They're unoffensive. They're not racist. Just want some fish. They're black and they're white. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. So that's all my latest things this week. 

[00:15:44] Adam Cox: Cool. 

[00:15:45] Kyle Risi: [00:16:00] so Anna Delvey She was born Anna Sorkin in Russia in 1991. 

[00:16:37] Adam Cox: She was Russian. 

[00:16:38] Kyle Risi: Yeah, she's a Russian chick, man. So she came from a lower middle class family. Her father was a truck driver and her mother was just a humble housewife. When Anna was 16, her family moved to Germany after her dad landed a brand new job and very quickly they started raking in some significant money.

[00:16:55] Kyle Risi: Not millions of dollars but enough to free them from the financial burdens that they faced while they were [00:17:00] living in Russia. Now, Anna graduated high school and she got into Central Saint Martins Art School in London. Which is quite a prestigious school that's kind of over the years to produce some real seriously talented people. 

[00:17:14] Kyle Risi: For example, john galliano, alexander mcqueen lucian freud stella mccartney They produce these really high profile really successful fashion designers So, with her family now doing very well, her dad agreed that he was going to actually support her living expenses while she was living in London attending the school.

[00:17:30] Kyle Risi: However, shortly after, starting her first semester, Anna decides that, it's not for her and she decides to drop out. When Anna's parents discover that she's left St. Martins, they understandably are upset. But they agree that they're going to support her while she figures out what her next steps are going to be. 

[00:17:48] Kyle Risi: Now anna doesn't see the point of spending three years struggling as a student to possibly land a job in the arts because it's notoriously difficult to get into that industry So Anna decides that she is going to apply [00:18:00] for an internship at a very prestigious magazine called Purple Magazine in Paris. Have you heard of them before? No, I don't think I have.

[00:18:06] Kyle Risi: So they're a renowned arts and lifestyle magazine and it's here that Anna sees that opportunity to kind of get ahead. She gets a glimpse into the high society kind of world, just imagine Purple Magazine is a hipster version of Vogue so it's slightly smaller scale, but it's really uber cool. 

[00:18:26] Adam Cox: So she's done a good job to get this internship then? 

[00:18:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so she could identify that was her window in to start rubbing shoulders with some of the, the most influential people in the world in the arts world for her to be able to get ahead she just needed to be in the peripheral of these people In order to make it because then she could use them to her advantage basically smart. So at purple magazine anna feels that she needs to reshape her image and her identity in order to fit in So she changes the name from Anna Sorkin to Anna Delvey.

[00:18:55] Kyle Risi: And this is where her character begins to emerge, And she begins telling [00:19:00] people that, of course, she is from Germany, despite her not so fluent German, accent. 

[00:19:06] Adam Cox: It's just, yeah, it's like somewhere in Eastern Europe. 

[00:19:09] Kyle Risi: people immediately say that she has this real talent for Figuring out who the most influential person is in any room and zeroing in on them, And she has this heightened sense of confidence that she just doesn't waste any time on a nobody.

[00:19:24] Kyle Risi: Often she uses the fact that she works Purple Magazine to her advantage by dropping the magazine's name everywhere because she obviously quickly learns that it comes with kind of some clout. So with that she, gains access to the most exclusive events around Paris. 

[00:19:39] Kyle Risi: And so in 2013 at 22 she gets the chance to cover New York Fashion Week on behalf of Purple Magazine, which means that she's going to the Big Apple. Wow. And while she's there, she ensures that she's just photographed everywhere.

[00:19:53] Adam Cox: So like, famous people having their photo taken on some red carpet or whatever. And she's just edging her way in going, Oh, [00:20:00] in the background. 

[00:20:00] Kyle Risi: And apparently she does this in the most confident way possible. Like she just walks over really confident as if, Oh, like, Oh, my friends are over there. They're getting their pictures taken. She'll kind of muscle her way in. And. She's pretty much been photographed alongside all of these New York high society socialites. No way. And she just blends in.

[00:20:19] Kyle Risi: So as a newcomer to the city, she's mingling with socialites, which is obviously not an easy feat considering how kind of clicky high society can be.

[00:20:29] Kyle Risi: But the thing is though, as she starts hanging around with these people in these kind of high society circles, nobody within these circles really knows who she is or where she's come from. She just has this kind of weird sense of belonging, right

[00:20:41] 

[00:20:41] Kyle Risi: They just assume that she is with someone else. 

[00:20:43] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:20:44] Kyle Risi: So it's like when we tried sneaking into that private pool in Santorini, we just walked in, we pretended that we belonged, nobody questioned us, people just thought that we belonged. We're allowed to be there.

[00:20:54] Adam Cox: We were fraudsters. 

[00:20:55] Kyle Risi: We just faked it till we made it.

[00:20:57] Adam Cox: We did. We made it that day. 

[00:20:58] Kyle Risi: We made it. We were [00:21:00] high society, man. Everyone was looking at us going, oh man, check them out in their private pool. But. We just literally jumped over that fence and we went swimming. So it's, it's kind of like that, right?

[00:21:09] Kyle Risi: She's quite literally faking it till she makes it. And, and I think that's something that at this point she really understands really well. If you act like you're one of them, they'll just assume that you are without even questioning it. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:21:22] Adam Cox: Yeah, you don't need to have to provide any like identity documents. Let's see your bank statement.

[00:21:26] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Where's your membership card to be in this group? Can you imagine if our little clique, we just had like membership cards? Because we forget who's in our group. We forget which six people are in there. Who are you? Let's see your membership card.

[00:21:39] Kyle Risi: Oh, Lawrence. Hi, mate. Yeah. I love you so much. Give me a hug. 

[00:21:44] Kyle Risi: So she gets just really good at seamlessly fitting in herself into the kind of these groups and these parties. A great example of this is when Anna and an acquaintance of hers is at a party and they spot this famous photographer from across the room and Anna just confidently says, oh yeah, [00:22:00] he's a good friend of mine. Let me go say hi and then I'll call you over.

[00:22:03] Kyle Risi: So then Anna approaches him and then after a brief chat she signals over to a friend like to kind of like come over and they start talking and later the photographer admits that he had never met Anna before. in his entire life before that night. She just introduced herself to him and suggesting that they had mutual friends from Purple Magazine and then she introduced him to her acquaintance as one of the oldest best friends in New York and he just found it amusing because he thought she was just being polite and funny.

[00:22:35] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess if you've just met someone, you're not going to correct them like that. You're going, excuse me, hang on. I've literally just known you for five minutes. 

[00:22:41] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And there's a politeness in it, right? Oh, this is my good friend. And like, you're trying to bond with that person by saying, oh, this is my good oldest friend from New York or whatever.

[00:22:50] Adam Cox: Along with it. Yeah. 

[00:22:51] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And what's the frame of reference here, right? You could have been in New York for, 40 minutes and it's the first person you met so technically it could be true, no? 

[00:22:59] Adam Cox: Yeah, okay, 

[00:22:59] Kyle Risi: yeah, I [00:23:00] think she's just being polite and charismatic in this setting.

[00:23:03] Adam Cox: Yeah, it doesn't sound like she's being malicious or anything. . 

[00:23:05] Kyle Risi: Like, even already she's got the makings of a very persuasive, confident person who's probably prying to be a little scammer anyway. So Anna is in New York for a few weeks. And she decides, Ooh, I really like this and decides that she is going to stay like New York is where it is at.

[00:23:22] Kyle Risi: So when she finally tells her parents that she's now leaving Purple Magazine to move to New York, of course, they're really pissed off, they supported her when she was in London, that went to pot , then she moves to Paris and again, they picked up the tab there too.

[00:23:37] Kyle Risi: But now they're annoyed and exhausted with her constant flip flopping. So this time they agree that, sure, they will support her for like a month or two. But that is it. After that, she needs to find a job to support herself. And she's like, sure, I agree. Gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme. 

[00:23:54] Adam Cox: So her parents must have some money or kind of from, not like they're that wealthy, but in a way that to at least [00:24:00] fund her afford living. 

[00:24:01] Kyle Risi: They're not billionaires. But they are really comfortable. They don't really have any financial burdens, they can afford to send it to private school. But they're not wealthy, wealthy. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:24:13] Kyle Risi: And so, it's at this point where she pretty much starts telling everyone in New York that she is a German heiress with an 80 million trust fund. And she's very smart to keep things fairly vague when people would press her about it.

[00:24:27] Kyle Risi: So her background is very much steeped in mystery Which based on the circles that she was going around in didn't seem that strange because it was quite common for For like people from those types of backgrounds to kind of keep their affairs, especially around money You Kind of on the low down?

[00:24:42] Adam Cox: Yeah, keep their cards close to their chest. Although to say 80 million, that's, that's not, that's kind of really 

[00:24:48] Kyle Risi: I think that's a moderate amount of money. 

[00:24:50] Adam Cox: Maybe that's a moderate in an upper society. 

[00:24:52] Kyle Risi: Possibly. 

[00:24:53] Adam Cox: For me, that's a huge amount. 

[00:24:54] Kyle Risi: I've watched a lot of Gossip Girl.

[00:24:57] Kyle Risi: And I just get the impression they're worth more than 80 [00:25:00] million. 

[00:25:00] Adam Cox: A hundred million. 

[00:25:01] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 82 million.

[00:25:04] Kyle Risi: So like, it was just, like I said, like, it's quite common for them to keep money affairs on the down low. Like, it was common for rich kids to go to art school. and enrolled in various internships because their families could afford to support them while they were doing these things. So none of this was unusual. Her story up until this point wasn't unusual. She'd done all these things. The only lie was that she was an heiress to 80 million dollars, right? And the thing about Anna was that she worked out how to fit in and look the part without actually having any money at all. What she would do is that she would invest in like the accessories. She would buy like a really expensive pair of Celine sunglasses and then she would just wear regular plain clothes that were really unrecognisable as a particular brand. She would just like dress all in black, for an example. 

[00:25:50] Adam Cox: Like Primark, but cut the labels out. 

[00:25:51] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And then when people would like compliment her on her outfit, she'd be like, Thanks, Alexander McQueen. When in reality, it was [00:26:00] just probably like from H& M, what's interesting is that in hindsight people would say that the thing that really gave her away was her hair because that's not really something that you can really fake.

[00:26:10] Kyle Risi: Yeah, why did she not get that sorted? Get a wig. I think people say that all the time though like in hindsight they go. Yeah, I knew the whole time you didn't know Brenda, you didn't know. I wasn't that Gay

[00:26:23] Adam Cox: Who's Brenda? 

[00:26:24] Kyle Risi: She's outta my life.

[00:26:26] Kyle Risi: also, like when she was out and about, she would often like tip ridiculous amounts of money to service workers, which just helped us solidify that illusion that she was from money. So nobody ever questioned her ever.

[00:26:38] Kyle Risi: So very soon after arriving in New York, her parents money runs out, and she needs to start supporting herself. And this is where her scam really starts because she's moving around in these high society circles, right? And she's told everyone that she has this 80 million dollar trust fund. So it's not like she can actually go and just get a job at Olive Garden, because they'll be like, aren't you like a trust fund baby? [00:27:00] Yeah, exactly. So she sets her sights on the big prize, right? She wants to start a really exclusive members only club. So she wants The only one I can really think of that is the equivalent that comes to mind is like maybe Soho House.

[00:27:15] Adam Cox: So this is what I was thinking about the whole membership exclusivity thing. Yeah. So she creates this and that way, get all the exclusive people in there. 

[00:27:21] Kyle Risi: Exactly. It was intended to focus on art and luxury and it would house like restaurants and bars. It would also have like a German bakery, like as a nod to a German heritage.

[00:27:32] Kyle Risi: But also have also lots of working spaces and also it'd be a hotel as well and the purpose of the club was to give back to the community by allowing young up and coming artists to showcase their work And provide them with a leg up. 

[00:27:46] Adam Cox: Give back to the community But it's an exclusive club that she's going to get people that probably have some kind of wealth already to give them a leg up.

[00:27:55] Kyle Risi: Paul's work. We are really niche with the artwork that we have. It's Paul's work. [00:28:00] If you're Paul, this is the wing for you. If you want to own something from the Pauls, Yeah, this is it. Come this way. Come this way. Come 

[00:28:07] Adam Cox: on. How novel. 

[00:28:08] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. And then hopefully if someone buys one, then they get the money, they get the kickback, and then they can get a leg up in terms of the artwork. Because the art world is very much a rich man's game, right? 

[00:28:19] Adam Cox: Yeah, yeah. With you. 

[00:28:20] Kyle Risi: And this club was to be called the Anna Delvey Foundation. Arrogant munch, right? 

[00:28:25] Adam Cox: Yeah, after your own self worth. 

[00:28:27] Kyle Risi: It kind of reminds me of the Centre of Kids Who Can't Read Good on Zoolander. The Anna Delvey Foundation.

[00:28:37] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So she is scouting around for locations around New York for her new foundation and she starts eyeing up this building at 281 Park Avenue, and it's an entire six story, 45, 000 square foot building and the lease on the building at the time was something ridiculous like 350, 000 a year. So she's literally [00:29:00] going big and she has no money.

[00:29:01] Kyle Risi: So while she's in New York, she makes friends with this super rich kid and he's the collector and founder of a company called Beijing's M Woods Museum.

[00:29:10] Kyle Risi: And Anna suggests to him that maybe they should go to the visual arts exposition in, in Venice somewhere. And he's all up for it and he's super excited.

[00:29:18] Kyle Risi: But when it comes to booking the hotels and the tickets, Anna says that she's really terrible with the details and asks if he can just go ahead and book everything and she'll just give him the money later on, right? Will she send him a wire? She'll send him a wire. I'll wire you later. And of course, like, he's like, sure, no problem.

[00:29:33] Kyle Risi: So they go for two weeks and everything was on him. And when they returned back to New York, she just never pays him. And later when they interviewed him about this, he just said like, look, it was. wasn't really that much money to me. Like, I'm rich as F man. 8, 000 bucks is nothing. And he just figured that she forgot.

[00:29:53] Kyle Risi: And when you're rich like these people are, it just isn't a big deal. Just spare change. Exactly. And this is [00:30:00] how she was able to get away for, with this for so long. 

[00:30:03] Adam Cox: Wow. To have eight grand spare change. 

[00:30:05] Kyle Risi: Yeah. One day. One day, man. So like, I guess that rich people don't really see money in the same way that us poors do, So he was just like, yeah, okay, whatever. 

[00:30:15] Kyle Risi: So, Anna, she's staying with various friends. She's taking advantage of the fact that they are filthy rich and they wouldn't think twice about spending a few grand here or there. But Anna understands that she can't keep doing this forever. So, she tries check hiting. Check writing, what is that? Well, we covered it last episode.

[00:30:30] Kyle Risi: This is what Cassie Chadwick was doing for a long time. So basically, it's when you write a bunch of bad checks from one account, deposit it into another account, and then in the time between the check being deposited and clearing, you withdraw that money, because they give you the benefit of the doubt that the check is going to clear, right?

[00:30:48] Kyle Risi: Yep. So she would do things like writing checks for 5, 000 at a time, then she would spend some of that money, but then take the money and put it into another account she'd written other cheques for to cover that and so on and [00:31:00] so on, hoping that it kind of never catches up on her.

[00:31:03] Kyle Risi: So when she had exhausted all of her friend's generosity in letting her stay at their houses, she decides that she's going to cheque herself into a fancy hotel. Because of course she's done all this cheque writing, she has a little bit of money. But the thing is, to check into a fancy hotel, you kind of need to put a credit card on file.

[00:31:21] Kyle Risi: So to get around this she tells them that obviously she is this German millionaire and her money is in this German account and says to them, I'll send you a wire and they buy it. They're like, sure thing Mrs. Delvey, yeah like here's your room. Check in. We'll wait for the bank transfer. And the thing is about these fancy hotels is that you can just charge everything to your room. So she'll only ever eat at the hotel restaurant. She'll only ever drink at the hotel's bar. And when she entertains her friends, it's always at the hotel because. Anywhere else, she wouldn't be able to foot the bill, right?

[00:31:54] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Because, of course, the girl is broke as fuck. 

[00:31:58] Adam Cox: Like, the nerve of her. I don't [00:32:00] think I could ever do that, because I struggle at the best of times in keeping up a lie. So the fact that she's doing this, or to, get all this food and not feel guilty or anything, or looking over her shoulder.

[00:32:11] Adam Cox: She's constantly keeping this act up to go Yeah, I belong here. That's true. I deserve this. 

[00:32:15] Kyle Risi: And you are terrible at lying because I got you a really nice fake Rolex watch from Hong Kong and every time you wear it, every time you wear it, people always compliment you on how beautiful the watch is. You go, it's fake! 

[00:32:29] Adam Cox: Yeah, I can't, I can't uphold the lie. I look at it and go like, I'm a fraud.

[00:32:34] Kyle Risi: It's true, you are a fraud. 

[00:32:35] Adam Cox: But you don't 

[00:32:36] Kyle Risi: need to tell people, just take the compliments and say thank you. 

[00:32:39] Adam Cox: Yeah, but then they'll start digging. It's like, how do you get that? And then, like, I start sweating, my butt is clammy, I just can't deal with it. 

[00:32:48] Kyle Risi: Uh, So she does have a little bit of money because she's been cheque kiting. So she's dropping like a hundred dollar tips and ordering 200 bottles of wine with cash Uh that she's obviously sourced from this check kiting And it's [00:33:00] this that props up this illusion that she's actually rich and when the hotel starts chasing her for money, she'll either cover it by check hiding, or she'll just check out of the hotel and disappear to somewhere else. 

[00:33:11] Kyle Risi: But like, 

[00:33:12] Adam Cox: there's security.

[00:33:13] Adam Cox: There'll be Should they not report this to the police if, um, she just goes disappearing and doesn't pay her bill? 

[00:33:18] Kyle Risi: Well, at this point in time, that hasn't caught up on her. 

[00:33:21] Adam Cox: Okay. 

[00:33:21] Kyle Risi: but I think this is a great time to take a quick break. And when we get back, I'll tell you a bit more about how Anna is planning on making her foundation a reality.

[00:33:31] Kyle Risi: Ooh. 

[00:33:31] Kyle Risi: So Adam, So Anna starts getting really serious about the Anna Delvey Foundation, the center for kids who can't read good.

[00:33:41] Kyle Risi: And through her connections that she's made in New York up to this point, She is introduced to some really important finance managers and brokers. One of which she hires and basically they are going to help her secure a load to make the Anna Foundation happen. Of course a reality [00:34:00] Now they're doing all of this on the premise that she is in fact a billionaire heiress with a huge trust fund Coming her way But she tells them that she doesn't want to rely on her parents for help She wants to do this all on her own And that's why she's going to them to try and secure all those finances rather than just dipping into a trust fund, right?

[00:34:18] Adam Cox: Hmm. Okay. That sounds noble. But 

[00:34:21] Kyle Risi: sounds noble. Yeah. So again, through her connections, she gets a marketing company to build together this really impressive marketing presentation that helps her bring the entire vision and plan for the foundation to life. And this will be used to impress the banks and hopefully help try and secure that loan when these finance brokers are going Around trying to kind of secure this money, 

[00:34:40] Kyle Risi: She pays like 20, 000 for this marketing presentation, which when they invoice her surprise surprise She never actually pays them ever and they end up chasing her for months and months, eventually they just give up.

[00:34:53] Adam Cox: That's surprising because I remember being at the last place I worked, if he wouldn't make us or didn't pay us the money that we were owed after a certain [00:35:00] period of time, we would take legal action. 

[00:35:02] Kyle Risi: Yeah, sure, and I do question whether or not in, like, New York, Where everything is bigger, whether or not 20, 000 is just small change and they have to write that off.

[00:35:13] Adam Cox: Maybe. 

[00:35:14] Kyle Risi: It depends how big that is relative to other things that you're working on. Is it worth your time? 

[00:35:18] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess if they've got bigger debts, they're gonna focus on those. 

[00:35:21] Kyle Risi: But I mean 20, 000 to us is a lot of money man.

[00:35:24] Kyle Risi: That's a lot of wine. 

[00:35:26] Kyle Risi: So her brokers are gonna go around with this very expensive presentation about the foundation and they're meeting with all these huge banks around the city. Meanwhile, Anna is having dealings with architects and various businesses and personalities that she wants to be involved in the foundation to some degree.

[00:35:43] Kyle Risi: So she's hosting these expensive lunches and dinners at the hotel, of course charging everything to her room one of the chefs that she tries to secure is a guy called Daniel Rose, he co opened Le Koukou in 2016. He's, he actually runs the restaurant at the hotel [00:36:00] that she's currently staying at, 

[00:36:01] Kyle Risi: and he is all in he is super excited by the invitation to open up a restaurant in her foundation club So people are on board man and they They see this very serious rich girl who seems to just be throwing millions and millions of dollars Into this foundation to set up this cool club and people are just turned on by the idea It's actually a really good idea.

[00:36:25] Kyle Risi: The problem is she just doesn't have the money. 

[00:36:28] Adam Cox: She's a fraud 

[00:36:28] Kyle Risi: Is she a fraud though, or she's just faking it So she makes it like remember she's making moves to secure the money 

[00:36:34] Adam Cox: Yeah And I guess the end goal is if you get that money you open the foundation you then have money And then you pay back some of this debt or whatever. And, and then you've made it. Yeah, 

[00:36:43] Kyle Risi: exactly. So she gets really far down this road, probably to the point where she's like, you know what? I think I can actually do this. I can do this. All she needs is that 25 million loan from the bank, Which the finance brokers are currently working on. 

[00:36:59] Kyle Risi: So [00:37:00] a couple of banks do actually turn her down, but eventually one bank is like, yeah, we'll give you 25 million. You seem 

[00:37:07] Adam Cox: good for it. 

[00:37:08] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:37:08] Adam Cox: Based on what you've just said and no other evidence.

[00:37:10] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Just give us though 100, 000 so we can look into your claims that you are in fact due to inherit 80, 000, 000. Ooh. And if all of that checks out, we'll give you the cash, baby. 

[00:37:24] So I have a feeling, knowing her so far, Um, that she probably can get the hundred thousand somehow, but how she proves she has eighty million, I don't know how she's going to do that. 

[00:37:34] Kyle Risi: So, somehow, after obviously check kiting she manages to convince another bank to loan her a hundred thousand bucks. There we go So she's got that So she gives that money to the bank who now want to obviously run their checks and they start processing In the background to look into her she's so close at this point. Like she's literally burping up money . So what she's thinking is that she will just pay back the 100, 000 loan. When she gets the 25 million dollar [00:38:00] loan from the big bank.

[00:38:01] Kyle Risi: Well, that makes 

[00:38:01] Adam Cox: sense. Yeah Yeah, 

[00:38:02] Kyle Risi: so that's how she's going to cover all those and all of her other little debts that she's racked up over The time as well So the big bank wants to start speaking to a bunch of people that she's connected to in germany in particular They want to connect with her money manager Okay, so she gives them the number they call it someone answers they talk to them And, they want statements from the family's trust, Anna sends them over, everything looks legit, and they're ready to give her the money. 

[00:38:27] Adam Cox: So, I'm guessing then, the man, or the person that it was called, is an actor of some kind? And the statements that she gives them must be photoshopped? Yeah. Right, okay. Yeah. 

[00:38:37] Kyle Risi: Fine. 

[00:38:38] Adam Cox: So it seems quite easy actually, maybe we can do it. But,

[00:38:41] Kyle Risi: Then someone at the bank pipes up and says, maybe we should do just one last check on this girl. I think we should actually go to Germany to meet the family's accountant to verify in person that this isn't just some random girl and that she's actually good for the money. After all, that is what the 100, [00:39:00] 000 is for, for them to go on a free trip to Germany, first class. That's what 

[00:39:05] Adam Cox: it's for. Trust someone and their due diligence. 

[00:39:09] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:39:09] Adam Cox: But quite sensible. 

[00:39:11] Kyle Risi: So when Anna finds out about this, that they're planning on visiting Germany, she immediately calls off the entire loan. She's like, no, no, no. I'm just going to ask my dad for the money now. Fuck doing it by myself. It's too hard. It's too hard! And they're like, oh, okay, that's fine. 

[00:39:24] Adam Cox: And they keep the hundred grand? 

[00:39:25] Kyle Risi: No, so up until now, they'd spent about 40, 000. Right. So they give her back 60, 000. Uh huh. And, oh man, can you imagine just how devastated she must feel at this point? Like, she got this far.

[00:39:38] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:39:38] Kyle Risi: And then it was like, oh, now they actually want to go to Germany. How am I going to fake that? So, she immediately withdraws the remaining 60, 000. And she just starts spending man. 

[00:39:48] Adam Cox: Not paying back any of the debts. 

[00:39:50] Kyle Risi: So the first thing she does is, settle up her 30, 000 bill at the hotel that she's been staying at. But what's really funny is that up until this point, they've been constantly threatening to kick her out, but she's like, [00:40:00] I'll wire you the money, but of course the money never came. But when she pays it back, she's like, see, I told you I had money. 

[00:40:06] Adam Cox: Yeah, six months later. 

[00:40:09] Kyle Risi: So if you've ever watched the Netflix drama Inventing Anna, then this is roughly where the story picks up from.

[00:40:15] Kyle Risi: Now Let me introduce you to a couple people who are going to be very important to anna's story First we meet the concierge at the hotel and that is a girl called Nefertari davis, I believe that's how you pronounce it. I might have butchered that but people just call her nef for short Okay, and she and anna become really good friends while anna was staying at the hotel 

[00:40:37] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's right 

[00:40:38] Kyle Risi: And she says that It was at this point that Anna starts spending crazy money.

[00:40:44] Kyle Risi: She's constantly dropping a hundred dollar tips so much so that other hotel staff would literally fight to make deliveries to her room because they knew that every time they went up there, they were guaranteed to get a hundred dollar tip.

[00:40:57] Kyle Risi: Wow. So then we meet another prominent [00:41:00] character her name is Katie Duke who is actually a personal trainer to the stars And her fame got a bit of a boost when it came out that she was the personal trainer to Dakota Johnson who at the time was starring in a little show called 50 Shades of Grey and like everyone was like Wanted her as their personal trainer.

[00:41:21] Kyle Risi: I want their body, right? Okay. So anna was like, oh I need to get me some of that So she hires casey And they end up becoming minor acquaintances who hang out occasionally then finally we meet a woman called rachel williams. Rachel was a photo editor of vanity fair and she and anna met through a circle of mutual friends Like rich was really attracted to other ambitious women, a bit like Anna, in a way.

[00:41:47] Kyle Risi: But I think Rachel comes across as a bit more desperate in her vibe, whereas Anna comes across a lot more confident. So Rachel was immediately struck by what Anna wanted to achieve with her foundation. She found it quite [00:42:00] admirable and interesting and exciting.

[00:42:02] Kyle Risi: And the fact that obviously she was really rich as F. So like Rachel, she's not like super rich or part of high society, but her job does mean that she is fairly well connected.

[00:42:11] Kyle Risi: So it's a bit of a friendship of benefit for both Anna and Rachel for example, it would mean that because of Rachel's job, she can introduce Anna to certain connected people. And Rachel 

[00:42:24] Adam Cox: Gets nice dinners? And 

[00:42:25] Kyle Risi: Rachel gets nice dinners, yeah.

[00:42:27] Kyle Risi: And so these four girls including Anna, they would often just hang out. Of course Anna has this 30, 000 so very often she's footing the bill and their friendship just kind of solidifies itself around the fact that Anna would often take Nath and Rachel to private sessions with Casey, the personal trainer, and eventually they're all going off to have expensive facials together, dinner's out, and through Rachel they manage to get access to Exclusive parties in and around New York and like to all of the girls It's very fun hanging out with Anna because [00:43:00] she's giving them a taste of what it's like to be part of upper society. And so there's no reason for any of them to not believe that Anna is the real deal. Their perception is their reality. They see the money and they think that Anna is filthy rich.

[00:43:16] Adam Cox: Yeah, if she's paying for their beauty treatments and all these things and she's footing the bill, Why would they think otherwise, right? 

[00:43:24] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So remember Anna is spending all of her free time with these three pretty regular people, not the usual high society folk.

[00:43:32] Kyle Risi: Oh yeah, that's right, yeah. So remember, Anna up until now never wasted any time with anyone who wouldn't benefit her in some way. Either status, money, or connections. She always seemed to gravitate towards the most impressive person in the room. So, like, what's the deal? Why is she all of a sudden just hanging out with these chumps?

[00:43:52] Adam Cox: Yeah, chumps. Um, has she, burnt the bridges then with a lot of these people? Because she has borrowed money, and they're like, we don't get anything [00:44:00] in return. 

[00:44:00] Kyle Risi: So you think like the cracks are starting to form within those friendships? 

[00:44:04] Adam Cox: Yeah if people are more like sponges and stuff and not adding anything to the relationship people probably just like, oh let's not bother inviting Anna anymore.

[00:44:11] Kyle Risi: That's it, it's a very good assessment. So actually a lot of A High Society of Friends were starting to write her off as a bit weird. Like they would always be like, what's the new girl's deal? Yeah, where's she 

[00:44:20] Adam Cox: actually from? 

[00:44:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:44:21] Adam Cox: That stupid accent. 

[00:44:23] Kyle Risi: Rude.

[00:44:24] Kyle Risi: And then over time, they just started to distance themselves from her. When it comes to kind of Casey, Rachel, and Neff, I genuinely think that hanging out with them was probably just a little bit of a relief. At times, like, you get to relax, you get to kind of put your guard down, you don't have to keep performing.

[00:44:40] Kyle Risi: So she probably didn't have to work as hard, or be anxious about what her next move was going to be. So I don't know. Anna was a poor girl struggling to keep up in a rich person's world. And I guess that must be quite stressful at times. 

[00:44:53] Kyle Risi: So remember, Anna is not from the US. So this means that every six months, she needs to renew her visa by leaving the [00:45:00] country before they're coming back in. So it's coming up to that time of year again. So she starts talking to Casey and Rachel and Nerv about possibly turning this into a fun trip for the four of them. Everything will, of course, be on Anna. Rachel loves this idea because she really thrives on being around Anna. She loves the money, she loves the status, a lot. And Casey is game too, but sadly, Nef can't make it because of course she, she has a job that she needs to do, right? Otherwise she can't afford rent in New York.

[00:45:28] Kyle Risi: Around about the same time Anna is starting to have conversations amongst her friends about wanting to make a documentary About the Anna delvey foundation and it just so happens that rachel introduces her to a filmmaker friend of hers called jesse and so Anna also invites Jesse onto this little trip of theirs and he's going to document the meetings around setting up the Foundation and the plans that she's making.

[00:45:55] Adam Cox: So she's still, like, pursuing this goal of the Anna Foundation, but she doesn't have the [00:46:00] time Doesn't sound like her focus is necessary on getting the money or like proving she has 80 million in order to get that loan. 

[00:46:05] Kyle Risi: That's it. I guess the next natural step would be to go back to these brokers and find another bank.

[00:46:11] Kyle Risi: And that's probably what's happening at this point. Right. But again, they might even ask for another 100, 000 so they can also check into her. So she's going to have to do some check kiting. But anyway, she's at this point in her journey. So it's this weird little group rachel the personal trainer rachel's friend jesse and they're all going to go on this little trip and they decide that they're going to go to marrakesh. So Anna's keen to stay At one of Marrakesh's most luxurious hotels. I believe it's pronounced La Mammonia, where the suites can go for upwards of 14 , 000 a night. Like, this is the hotel that royalty and famous people stay when they visit Marrakesh. 

[00:46:46] Kyle Risi: So we actually drove past this exact hotel when we were making our way into the center of Marrakesh when we were visiting and it's kind of right on the immediate outskirts of the city near that famous square where the monkeys and the snake charmers are.

[00:46:58] Adam Cox: Oh yeah, yeah. 

[00:46:59] Now on [00:47:00] the day that they're meant to leave. Anna hasn't booked any flights. So initially they're all a bit worried, they just rationalized this by like this is how rich people operate They just rock up at the airport and they book a flight right there And then they don't really look for cheap flights or anything like that.

[00:47:15] Kyle Risi: They don't book in advance I 

[00:47:16] Adam Cox: can believe that 

[00:47:17] Kyle Risi: but as the day goes on Rachel starts to stress out a little because she hasn't heard anything from Anna You But also, she's getting a lot of pressure from her friend Jesse, who is supposed to be documenting, the trip. So, he isn't appreciating being messed around. So Rachel calls Anna, and Anna's like, Oh, I've been stuck in meetings all day, can you go ahead and book the flights?

[00:47:37] Kyle Risi: Anna sends her credit card details so Rachel is relieved and goes to book the flights for that night, but Anna's card doesn't work And Anna's like, Oh, I don't know what's happening. I'll call the bank . Anna calls back and says, there seems to be some kind of issue with my bank. But the airline is going to be closing very, very soon. We need to book those tickets.

[00:47:58] Adam Cox: She's going to ask [00:48:00] Rachel to do it. 

[00:48:01] Kyle Risi: Anna doesn't suggest that. Rachel booked the flights, but she kind of backs her into a corner where Rachel feels like she needs to offer.

[00:48:08] Kyle Risi: So Rachel says, why don't I just put it on my card and you can give me the money later on? And Anna is like, great idea. 

[00:48:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess she's kind of like, what are we gonna do? I don't know what's gonna happen. We literally have no other options. Do we Rachel? 

[00:48:23] Kyle Risi: Yeah, what should we do? Silence, silence, silence.

[00:48:29] Kyle Risi: And then it's like, Shall I put it on my card? 

[00:48:31] Adam Cox: Great idea! 

[00:48:32] Kyle Risi: Wonderful idea! And so from that point on, Rachel is just paying for everything. And remember, after all of this, Rachel actually goes off and writes a book. And in it, she is like, there was no reason for me to not believe that I was friends with a billionaire. Like, she had literally seen her charter An airplane But what rachel didn't know at the time was that anna never actually paid the bill on that [00:49:00] charter She just saw her going in acting like she belonged acting like she did this all the time But never actually fit the bill.

[00:49:06] Kyle Risi: So they go to marrakesh the first couple days are perfect. They're in this foreign country It's a different culture staying in one of the best hotels in the country life was literally just bliss But if you've ever been to morocco, then you'll know that. Um, The shits are just around the corner. We've all been there!

[00:49:24] Kyle Risi: Because Casey, the personal trainer, she gets food poisoning and she has to fly home. Which, looking back later on, she says, thank God. God, 

[00:49:33] Adam Cox: thank God for food poisoning. 

[00:49:34] Kyle Risi: Thank God for food poisoning.

[00:49:35] Kyle Risi: Cause what's going to happen is mental. So at the hotel, they are treated like royalty. They have a private butler. There's a concierge who helps them do anything that it wants. So they get booked on all these like really private tours around the Cirques, they go to see. The YSL Gardens, the Youssef Laurent Gardens. And the whole time, Rachel just left fitting the bill all at Anna's behest. 

[00:49:57] Adam Cox: How is she doing this? Because if it's 40, 000 [00:50:00] a night, I'm not saying they were paying that, but it doesn't sound like Rachel's got that much money or that much credit to be putting this down.

[00:50:06] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Yeah. So she's using her own personal credit card, and it's mostly, it's just for shopping and when they go out of the hotel, because when they're in the hotel, everything's being booked to the room. So it's not a problem, but when they're out, it's on Rachel's credit card. At one point Anna gets like three thousand dollars worth of tailor made clothing and Rachel is asked to pay it on her credit card.

[00:50:26] Kyle Risi: Which is crazy. 

[00:50:27] Adam Cox: Awkward. 

[00:50:28] Kyle Risi: And again Anna just stresses like, when my card is fixed I'll give it back to you. And Rachel's like, okay. Okay, sure. I'd 

[00:50:35] Adam Cox: still be a bit like, 

[00:50:37] Kyle Risi: when's that gonna be? a few outings, Anna is super reluctant to go out she just wants to hang back at the hotel because remember everything is charged to her room but it's the other girls that kind of persuade her to kind of like, let's go on an outing, we're in another country, let's do it. 

[00:50:50] Kyle Risi: So one night they come back after dinner and the hotel manager is in their room and they're not happy, so these guys want a credit card on [00:51:00] file. Rachel says in that moment, Anna was just acting really dismissive and annoyed towards them.

[00:51:04] Kyle Risi: And she just said like, look, there must be a problem with my card. Let me call my bank. And then when she gets back, she just says like my bank will fix it and it'll all be sorted in the morning. So she's trying to kind of like fight them off, but they're not going anywhere. And they demand a card be placed on file right now. And Anna acts just odd. She just apparently sits down on the sofa and she just stares blankly into space. So the situation is really uncomfortable for everyone in that room. 

[00:51:31] Kyle Risi: Like she's just. pretending like the men aren't even in the room and they're just standing there with their arms crossed. They're like, uh, lady, we need this credit card. 

[00:51:39] Adam Cox: That is really bizarre behavior, but someone that probably is just slightly unstable. 

[00:51:43] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's it. So eventually management say they're going to call the police and suggest that Rachel just give them a card until Anna's account is sorted in the morning because they're not willing to wait.

[00:51:51] Kyle Risi: They reassure her that they won't charge the card at all, they're just going to put a hold on the balance until they get Anna's card in the [00:52:00] morning. Right. And so Rachel hands over her own personal credit card. But there's not enough money on that particular card to place a hold on it because there's a limit.

[00:52:08] Adam Cox: Yeah, I can say 10, 000, if not more, if it's several nights. 

[00:52:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so she hands over her Vanity Fair work credit card that's only meant to be used for work expenses only. 

[00:52:22] Kyle Risi: So the next day, Rachel has organised to actually fly from Marrakesh to France to meet up with some friends for a couple of days, right?

[00:52:29] Kyle Risi: So she's actually leaving the meeting. at this point. Before she flies out, she gets reassurance from Anna that she will pay back the money and will replace the card on file with her own card once it gets sorted by the bank, So now it's just Anna and Jesse, the guy who's supposed to be there to document her for her film about the Anna Delvey Foundation.

[00:52:48] Kyle Risi: He was expecting to shoot some serious footage, but all Anna wanted to do all day was just get him to take Instagram photos of her. By the poolside. 

[00:52:59] Adam Cox: [00:53:00] Yeah, imagine if I was him, I'd be like, Is there really a foundation? What actually is your plan here? 

[00:53:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah, eventually, like literally, he is like, I don't think this girl's got any money.

[00:53:09] Kyle Risi: So he just went and booked his own fly home and he left. So Anna was alone in Marrakesh with no money and still no card on file. 

[00:53:18] Adam Cox: And is Rachel due to fly back via Marrakesh, do we 

[00:53:21] Kyle Risi: know? No, she's just going to meet her in the States. Ah, okay. So a few days later Rachel sees that the hotel has charged her personal credit card for the hotel stay and it's a total of 65, 000 and Rachel is freaking out.

[00:53:36] Kyle Risi: She believes that she's going to get fired because that card is explicitly for work purposes only And now they've charged six five thousand bucks to that card. So she's of course Frantically just trying to call Anna on the phone. 

[00:53:50] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's like, uh, you owe me bitch. 

[00:53:52] Kyle Risi: Yeah, i'd be I'd be fuming 

[00:53:53] Adam Cox: Yeah, you'd be like my job's gone.

[00:53:54] Adam Cox: That's it. Uh, you're like, how am I gonna get this money? 

[00:53:58] Kyle Risi: Anna is completely blasé about the whole thing. She [00:54:00] tells her like, No worries. Um, I don't know why they've charged you. It must be in a mix up. I'm on the phone with my parents now. The money will be wired to you any minute now and it just never arrives. Rachel is calling and calling and Anna just reels off excuse after excuse. When Rachel calls Casey , she says that Anna actually called her from Marrakesh, crying, saying that there was a mix up with her bank and she begged to Casey to book her a ticket home and that she would pay her back in a few days and Casey's like Yeah, babe, that's not my problem. but eventually Casey agrees and Anna's like, by the way, can you book first class?

[00:54:36] Adam Cox: The audacity! Yeah, it's like thanks for helping me out, but just make sure it's first class I couldn't bear being in coaching 

[00:54:46] Kyle Risi: and so after Rachel speaks to Casey, Casey tells her that she still hasn't paid her back for that flight.

[00:54:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, this is not looking good, is it, for those girls. 

[00:54:53] Kyle Risi: It's not. She still doesn't think this is a scam, she just rationalizes all by like, believing that [00:55:00] maybe her parents just cut her off financially, or that they give her an allowance and that she's gone over that allowance. She needs to wait till the next month to get like the next payment for that. But I, but Rachel, I swear to God, she is dumb as bricks.

[00:55:11] Kyle Risi: She just can't Still convinced that she's a billionaire. She just refusing to believe it.

[00:55:16] Adam Cox: Wake up Rachel. 

[00:55:17] Kyle Risi: Meanwhile, she has to borrow money from family and friends just to make the minimum payments on her work credit card Otherwise, she's gonna get fired if they find out and she just starts slowly tracking down other people who have their own Anna stories.

[00:55:33] Kyle Risi: And finally, this is where Rachel is like, okay, Anna's a scammer. Wow. 

[00:55:41] Kyle Risi: So I feel like this is a perfect moment to take a short break. And when we return, I'll tell you about how this entire thing started to unravel

[00:55:50] Kyle Risi: so Adam, meanwhile, things are not going great for Anna. She has spent all of the 30k that she had left from the brokers. When she gets [00:56:00] back to New York, she shows up at the hotel that she's been staying at, and Neth, is like, what the hell are you doing here? They've locked up all your stuff in storage and they kicked you out because you owe them 50, 000.

[00:56:11] Kyle Risi: If I don't tell them that you're here I'm going to get in trouble so Anna goes to another hotel for a few days But at that point all the hotels in the city Are all on strict Anna watch because the hotel had sent an alert Um to be on guard for this for Anna 

[00:56:26] Adam Cox: this fake german this 

[00:56:27] Kyle Risi: german redhead.

[00:56:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah So the hotel kicks her out. That night she turns up at Casey's house She's in a flood of tears and is begging to stay because her parents are she as she claims withholding money from her To punish her for not wanting to come home back to germany Mm hmm And so her credit access has just been completely cut off.

[00:56:48] Kyle Risi: Cassie feels guilty. She says like, you can stay, but only for one night. So that morning. So the morning comes, Casey is like, okay, time to leave, bye. 

[00:56:56] Adam Cox: Get out. 

[00:56:56] Kyle Risi: And Anna deliberately leaves her laptop there, knowing that [00:57:00] she then has a reason. To come back. To come back. Sneaky. Casey sees right through this move, and she goes down to the lobby, leaves it with a doorman and tells her that when Anna comes back, just to say that she is not here, that she's gone out.

[00:57:13] Kyle Risi: Later, the doorman calls her and says that Anna did come back to pick up the laptop. He told her, obviously, that Casey was out. And so Anna just waited in the foyer for eight hours waiting for Casey to come back. Because she had nowhere else to go. Oh 

[00:57:29] Adam Cox: no, I almost feel a bit sorry for her now. 

[00:57:31] Kyle Risi: I do as well.

[00:57:31] Kyle Risi: I feel really bad for her. 

[00:57:33] Adam Cox: Even though she's a big scammer. 

[00:57:35] Kyle Risi: I mean, you've got to admire the hustle. 

[00:57:36] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:57:37] Kyle Risi: I don't mind trying to defraud a bank out of millions and millions and millions of dollars, but when you are defrauding your friend, even though Rachel to me seems a little bit insufferable, I still feel bad for her.

[00:57:48] Adam Cox: Yeah, she didn't go into this wanting to be, I think. Well, she wanted to socialize with someone that had money, but she didn't want to harm anyone. She wanted to 

[00:57:57] Kyle Risi: socialize with someone who actually had money.

[00:57:59] Kyle Risi: [00:58:00] Yeah. So I feel sorry for her for not getting what she wanted. That's true.

[00:58:06] Kyle Risi: So Anna is just fed up with all the relentless hounding from Rachel and is actively trying to avoid her calls at this point. So Rachel gets Casey to reach out to Anna and to arrange a lunch, right?

[00:58:17] Kyle Risi: Because it's the only way that she can connect with her now. And when she arrives, Rachel will be there to ask her like, Tell us, like, what's the truth? Like, have your parents really cut you off? What happened to your money? When are you going to pay me back? This is an intervention.

[00:58:30] Kyle Risi: So, during this lunch, Anna just skits around the truth, the conversation just ends up going nowhere, and Rachel's just at the end of her tether, living, she's literally living in fear every day that she is going to get fired if Valency Fair bosses find out about, obviously, the credit card.

[00:58:46] Kyle Risi: But Anna doesn't care. And so Rachel says that she's going to take this further. And she's going to consult a lawyer. And again, Anna just dismisses it. She just doesn't give a shit. At this point, nobody knows where she's staying [00:59:00] either. The last I heard was that she just waited in the lobby, um, at Kessler's apartment for eight hours and then just disappeared. They assume that she's just checked into another hotel, but the truth was that she was hiring cars and just sleeping in them because she'd essentially been blacklisted from all the hotels in New York City.

[00:59:17] Adam Cox: Mmm, how the mighty have fallen. 

[00:59:18] Adam Cox: So she can't charge anything to her room anymore. So she's just eating at restaurants and just leaving without paying the bill. And this ends up catching up with her because eventually a few days later, after her little intervention with Casey and Rachel, she's arrested for trying to run out on paying a restaurant bill.

[00:59:36] Adam Cox: Bitch, just go to Taco Bell. 

[00:59:38] Adam Cox: You don't have to go to a fancy restaurant. I bet that doesn't even, like, cross her mind. I reckon she always It 

[00:59:44] Kyle Risi: should! Bitch, you're broke! 

[00:59:47] Adam Cox: I think she's just probably living that delusion. That's her life. She would never want to, like, I don't know, go somewhere cheap. Yeah. It finally catches up with her. 

[00:59:54] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm. So the New York Post hears about this and they write a story about [01:00:00] it. The German heiress caught trying to get out of paying her restaurant bill. So Rachel sees the story and she's like, Okay, I have to take action. So she finally goes to the police and the police are like, oh yeah, actually, we probably should look into this girl because it's not just restaurant bills, it turns out there's this whole thing with like 25 million dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars of cheque hiding, so we should probably look into her.

[01:00:24] Adam Cox: And all the hotels and everything else. All 

[01:00:26] Kyle Risi: of it, yeah. But Anna is gone. She's actually left New York City and nobody knows where. And I guess she's just mortified by the story leaking in the post.

[01:00:35] Adam Cox: Everyone knows now. 

[01:00:36] Kyle Risi: So what's a rich girl to do? Check into rehab. 

[01:00:39] Adam Cox: Oh, okay. 

[01:00:40] Kyle Risi: How did she 

[01:00:40] Adam Cox: pay for that? Maybe she doesn't 

[01:00:42] Kyle Risi: have to pay has to check out.

[01:00:45] Kyle Risi: It's the same old, same old, right? New city, no one knows who she is. She can walk the walk, talk the talk. She'll be fine. Yeah. Convince Rachel to try and contact her to find out where she is So that she can be arrested by the police But of course [01:01:00] Rachel has long burnt that bridge But police are like well if you want to stand any chance of getting your money back You Then we kind of need your help because we've been tipped off that she might be trying to go back to Germany.

[01:01:12] Kyle Risi: So if you want to get your money back, 

[01:01:13] Adam Cox: last chance, 

[01:01:14] Kyle Risi: this is your last chance. Rachel starts messaging her with messages like, I'm really concerned about you, nobody's seen you for ages, I'm not angry, uh, Yes I am. Yeah, I'm not angry anymore, uh, I just want to make sure like you're okay, right? She doesn't hear anything for a few weeks, but eventually Anna starts to reply.

[01:01:33] Kyle Risi: And this is where Anna tells Rachel that she's really sick and that she's checked herself into rehab. And it's actually One of the most exclusive rehab centers in the world. Of course. This is where like celebrities and rich kids go. And it's called passengers, in Los Angeles. Right. 

[01:01:49] Kyle Risi: So now Rachel knows where she is. She tells the cops and they're like, go get her boys. And the police like, yeah, about that. Um, we can't really arrest someone who's in rehab. Yeah. [01:02:00] You kind of like need a warrant for that, and there's a lot of hurdles to kind of jump through.

[01:02:04] Kyle Risi: How about instead, you lure her out, and then when she comes out, we'll then pounce on her. So Rachel's like, for fuck's sake. I don't 

[01:02:13] Adam Cox: know, I feel a bit like, what, uh, what do you guys do? Like, we're really busy, and they're like, I don't know, playing, like, computer games. 

[01:02:22] Kyle Risi: It just so happens that Rachel is going to Los Angeles for work so she messages Anna and says can we meet for lunch? I'm in town for a few days. Let's start rebuilding our friendship and Anna is like sure. Let's do it Oh, by the way, I haven't had a drink in so long and I'm so desperate for booze So when you come can you like bring a bunch of empty Voss water bottles and fill them up with vodka?

[01:02:43] Kyle Risi: See you soon, . And the nerve, and the nerve, and Rachel's like, mm. Yeah. And I'm not gonna do that. Sorry. Yeah. So Rachel arrives in LA and it's the day of the lunch. Anna is allowed to leave for the day, and the second she sets foot outside of the rehab [01:03:00] center, the police officers just arrest her 

[01:03:02] Adam Cox: jumper girls.

[01:03:03] Kyle Risi: They bounce on her, and I can just imagine that moment in slow motion. where Anna realizes what's going on and she tries to make a run for it back into the rehab like So like poor Anna, like she's got set up like so she's had a taste of her own medicine and it is bitter. She's flown back to New York and she's sent to Rikers Island, which is a pretty big prison in New York.

[01:03:30] Kyle Risi: So she's brought up on charges of grand larceny, theft of services, and defrauding hotels and various acquaintances. So it's pretty serious. She's been busted. 

[01:03:40] Adam Cox: How is she going to get herself out of this, or does she? 

[01:03:43] ,

[01:03:43] Kyle Risi: Well, it's actually at this point that this is where the story completely blows up. She becomes this international sensation. Because first Rachel decides that if she is going to get fucked by Anna, then she's going to capitalise on it. And so she writes a story about [01:04:00] everything that's happened for an article for Vanity Fair she's capitalizing on it, right? Neff is then contacted by a journalist from New York magazine called Jessica Pressler And through Neff, she then writes this huge expose on Anna, and this story takes the story to a whole new level of virality.

[01:04:20] Kyle Risi: And so as a result, people become completely obsessed with the story. And it's actually Jessica Presta's article, through Neff, that the Netflix series, Inventing Anna, is actually based on. Wow. So Anna then goes to trial which is going to be filmed every single day And to make sure that she looks incredible she recruits the stylist who is willing to do it all for exposure. So it's a kind of that classic thing. Oh, I'll pay you with exposure. Yeah, that's really high profile. That's 

[01:04:48] Adam Cox: crazy. But did Anna seek that person out or did the designer, whatever, get in touch? 

[01:04:53] Kyle Risi: Anna probably had, like, a hand in it. 

[01:04:56] Adam Cox: to look poor in some orange scrubs, in that little [01:05:00] uniform. So she wants to look amazing. So as the trial progresses, people start wearing t shirts around New York saying things like German heiress or my other t shirt. Well, why are you 60, 000? People are completely obsessed with it. Eventually, Anna is offered a plea deal with three to nine years if she agrees to go back to Germany and serve a sentence there.

[01:05:22] Adam Cox: But she rejects this. She opts for a more harsher sentence of 12 years because the bitch knows that being in prison in the US is far better for her commercially where she's now famous. Yeah, so she's smart. What's interesting is that in her defense, her lawyers try to argue that Anna is quintessentially an example of someone chasing the American dream.

[01:05:45] Adam Cox: What? Yeah, so she's come to the US to make it big, and in order to do that, she has to fake it till she makes it. And so, to punish her for that goes against everything that is American. Don't tell me that [01:06:00] actually people bought that. 

[01:06:01] Kyle Risi: Well, people start looking at her as this inspirational figure in modernity.

[01:06:06] Adam Cox: But she conned people! She 

[01:06:09] Adam Cox: did, I get it. But she was trying to be a good person. She did it in 

[01:06:12] Kyle Risi: an American way. 

[01:06:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, geez. 

[01:06:16] Kyle Risi: But of course the jury were like, lol, no. Oh, thanks God. And she is found guilty of grand larceny and she's sentenced to a minimum of five years. So in February of 2021. The bitch is released after spending just three years in jail.

[01:06:32] Kyle Risi: And so the months following her release in March 2021, immigration got hold of her for overstaying her visa, obviously. And so She was sent back to jail until October 2022, where she's finally released on bail of 10, 000. And now she's under house arrest in her New York apartment. She's trapped there.

[01:06:53] Kyle Risi: She can't leave. In her New York apartment? Yep. She's staying, I think somewhere like Soho or Trebekka or somewhere like that. That's pretty 

[01:06:59] Adam Cox: [01:07:00] central. 

[01:07:00] Kyle Risi: Yeah. How is she affording? Oh, she must be getting some money. I don't know from somewhere licensing deals or like, like she's famous. Did she ever get any money from like Netflix?

[01:07:08] Well, she's not allowed to earn any money from the Netflix deal, but there are, rumors that there's ways around it, funding money to her, maybe not directly, but maybe via a proxy or some kind.

[01:07:22] Adam Cox: Okay. She probably knows people that know how to do that for her. 

[01:07:25] Kyle Risi: Yeah, of course she does. 

[01:07:27] Adam Cox: Rich 

[01:07:27] Kyle Risi: people, rich people know things that portals 

[01:07:28] Adam Cox: don't. She's not rich, we've established. That's true. 

[01:07:32] Kyle Risi: But she is connected to that world. Yeah, 

[01:07:33] Adam Cox: fair. 

[01:07:35] Kyle Risi: Since then everyone wants a piece of her. As you know, Netflix released that mini series based on Jessica Preston's piece in the New York magazine, where Anna is played by the incredible Julia Garner, and the show is just iconic. From their show, what are the things that stand out the most to you? 

[01:07:51] Adam Cox: It is probably just when she goes, I'll send you a wah. Is that the only thing that 

[01:07:56] Kyle Risi: stands out to you? 

[01:07:57] Adam Cox: [01:08:00] Yeah.

[01:08:01] Kyle Risi: I mean, it is an iconic scene. It's the accent for me. Yeah. So now Anna has just released. She's chilling in her apartment under house arrest. She has her own podcast called The Anna Delvey Show, not Foundation.

[01:08:12] Adam Cox: Hang on how did she get that equipment and stuff like that? It's just, I guess this is how she's connected because she's not allowed outside house arrest, right?

[01:08:19] Adam Cox: At all. 

[01:08:20] Kyle Risi: But I mean, there's Amazon. You're forgetting that that exists. 

[01:08:23] Adam Cox: Yeah, okay, fair point. 

[01:08:24] Kyle Risi: And the podcast. So yeah, the Anna Delvey show covers a bunch of different topics from crime, adversity, and societal norms. She brings on various guests who are typically local to New York or to the area. Like the most recent one that I listened to was some woman in a band, and they talk about her music and her influences and stuff.

[01:08:42] Adam Cox: Does she make it about herself? Not 

[01:08:45] Kyle Risi: really. 

[01:08:45] Adam Cox: Oh. 

[01:08:46] Kyle Risi: No. 

[01:08:46] Adam Cox: Does she bring on people that she scammed? That would be 

[01:08:49] Kyle Risi: good. That would be good. Bring on Rachel! 

[01:08:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, like, 

[01:08:52] Kyle Risi: so how much do I owe you? 

[01:08:53] Adam Cox: Yeah, you're not gonna get that. Yeah. 

[01:08:56] Kyle Risi: Listen, Rachel, let's just tally up everything that I owe you. All right, so how much was [01:09:00] the hotel room? Yeah, 10, 000 plus 40, 000 plus 18, 000 press enter.

[01:09:06] Kyle Risi: What's money amongst friends. 

[01:09:09] Adam Cox: I let you on my show. Yeah.

[01:09:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so she's doing a podcast and like the thing is though, even up until this point, Anna is completely unapologetic about what she's done. And in fact, she's really starting to lean into this as well. And of course, she has her Instagram account, which is just absolute comedy gold. It is completely obvious that she is one of the most delusional people you will have ever met in your life. If you get a chance, take a look at it. 

[01:09:37] Adam Cox: I'm just looking at it now. She's got 1. 1 million followers. Yeah, she's serious man. She doesn't have the blue tick though I don't know if she's not allowed that. 

[01:09:45] Kyle Risi: No, she can't afford the 8. 99. 

[01:09:48] Kyle Risi: So she started selling these really hideous, clearly GCSE level sketches, which you can see on her Instagram. Adam, they are terrible, and they are selling [01:10:00] for 25, 000 each! 

[01:10:02] Adam Cox: This is how she's funding her podcast. That is!

[01:10:05] Kyle Risi: And one of them is a sketch of her in court, and it's a real bad sketch, and the caption reads, The trial is the new sex tape.

[01:10:18] Adam Cox: Amazing. I was just looking at one now and she is outside a Department of Corrections van she's in like a, like this nice dress by the looks of things. It says, no regrets. And then there's a little arrow going Gucci to her dress. 

[01:10:31] Kyle Risi: Oh my god. Um, There's also this montage, of all these B list celebrities like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan at their trials.

[01:10:42] Kyle Risi: So she's elevating herself up to their level because they've all had famous trials, right? And then she's like, splashed in the middle of it all. So she's just completely delusional. Um,

[01:10:53] Kyle Risi: also, she posts this trailer for Billions. Do you remember that show, Billions? Oh yeah. [01:11:00] With, what's his name, Bobby Axelrod. And he's that kind of ginger guy with the freckles and he's kind of this real kind of Jason Heavens kind of style of CEO, like really play hard, work hard, ruthless, etc. So she posts that trailer and she puts the caption Looks like they already made a TV series about me.

[01:11:20] Kyle Risi: Bobby Axel is the version of me, she says. I'm like, this girl is absolutely delusional.

[01:11:27] Adam Cox: Yeah. Yeah, she's leaning into it. She's making the most out of this now because she has got this notoriety. She can make money from it. Yeah, why not?

[01:11:35] Adam Cox: Go, go her because I don't 

[01:11:37] Kyle Risi: think she's going to make that much money out of it. 

[01:11:39] Adam Cox: Well, I guess whatever money she does make, she probably has to pay back people. That's probably the deal, right? 

[01:11:44] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I think her story is more fascinating than her personality, because when you go on that Instagram and you see some of the things that she's trying to do, she's clearly trying to be this larger than life personality. And to me, it just doesn't [01:12:00] connect. But her story is crazy. And I think she can probably continue to ride that That way for a while, but her personality isn't anything to go by in my opinion. 

[01:12:09] Adam Cox: Yeah, and she's not going to be able to like well fraud anyone now. Oh, yeah, 

[01:12:14] Kyle Risi: she's too well recognized, right?

[01:12:15] Adam Cox: So she's gonna have to rely on this story to keep coming back and stuff. 

[01:12:20] Kyle Risi: Yeah, Neff, So she's actually gone on to be a consultant for the netflix tv series obviously inventing anna and rachel She eventually gets a three hundred thousand dollar book deal to flesh out that article she wrote into an actual book as well, um, called My Friend Anna and apparently it's going to be turned into an HBO TV series as well but yeah, Adam, that is the story of Anna Delvey. 

[01:12:44] Adam Cox: Yeah. Wow. That was good to, um, revisit that because I've forgotten quite a lot about how, how it went down.

[01:12:50] Adam Cox: Um, aside from obviously she committed fraud and things, but yeah, she, she had some nerve. She managed to hold out for some years by the sounds of things. She did. Yeah, yeah. Um, and to kind of be able to do that is kind of [01:13:00] commendable, but yeah, at least she got what she deserved in the end. 

[01:13:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah, and the thing is though, like, when we watched the TV series, it didn't really go into too much of her past and her background.

[01:13:09] Kyle Risi: So it was nice to kind of fill in those gaps to see how she got to that moment in time where she met Nef, Rachel and Casey. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, that is, part two of our Scammer series, if you will. I hear that maybe we might be adding another one to that list. 

[01:13:26] Adam Cox: We've got another lady Scammer coming along.

[01:13:28] Adam Cox: Yeah, did we touch on it last time? 

[01:13:30] Kyle Risi: We did, but you gave us a clue. Your clue was, um, rollneck sweaters, which made me just think of like Steve Jobs. 

[01:13:36] Adam Cox: Um, okay. Well, that's good. And then my next clue to that will be, really deep voice. Uh, I know who we're covering. Are we covering Elizabeth Holmes?

[01:13:46] Adam Cox: We will be, yes, yeah, yeah. Yes! So, not quite sure when I'll be going out, but we'll be soon. 

[01:13:51] Kyle Risi: Okay. I can't wait for that. That'll be good. And that will complete our trilogy on female scammers. 

[01:13:56] Adam Cox: Yes. 

[01:13:57] Kyle Risi: Should we run the outro on this week's episode? Let's 

[01:13:59] Adam Cox: do 

[01:13:59] Kyle Risi: it. [01:14:00] So that is another episode of the companion podcast in the bag. If you've enjoyed today's episode, then be sure to hit that follow button right in the app that you're listening to us in right now. It really helps us more than we can articulate. You can also schedule new episodes to download automatically leave us a little review because your feedback really helps us get better.

[01:14:20] Kyle Risi: Don't forget that we release every Tuesday and until then remember a true heiress needs more than a convincing backstory and a bold attitude. 

[01:14:29] Kyle Risi: See you next time. 

[01:14:30] Adam Cox: See ya. [01:15:00]