Dirty Pop’s Lou Pearlman: Boy Bands and Big Scams

In this episode of the Compendium, cha cha slide into world of Lou Pearlman, the mastermind behind Backstreet Boys and NSYNC. Discover how he orchestrated one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in the music industry, exploiting the 90s pop music scene and creating a legacy of celebrity scandals. From the formation of boy bands to the shocking revelations of financial fraud, we take you through the carnival of deception that defined Lou Pearlman's career. Buckle up for a ride through this freakshow of fame, fortune, and betrayal.

We give you the Compendium, but if you want more:

1. The Boy Band Con: The Lou Pearlman Story - Lance Bass
2. “Dirty Pop: The Dark Side of Lou Pearlman” - Netflix Mini Series
3. “The Ponzi Scheme Behind Backstreet Boys and NSYNC” - ABC News

Connect with Us:

• 🌐 Our Website: TheCompendiumPodcast.com
• 💬 Connect: Send us a voice note
• 📸 Our Instagram: @theCompendiumPodcast

Support the show:

• 🍎 Review us on Apple Podcasts
• 🟢 Review us on Spotify
• ❤️ Get Early Access to Episodes on Patreon

Credits:

• Hosts: Kyle Risi & Adam Cox
• Intro and Outro Music: Alice in dark Wonderland by Aleksey Chistilin
• All the Latest Things Intro: Clowns by Giulio Fazio

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi: they have collectively sold 30 million records across all of their albums and they have made Lou Perlman literally hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue and there is no question that the Backstreet Boys are the biggest band in the world. But even after all of this success, They still haven't received a paycheck. 

[00:00:20] Adam Cox: How? How have they not got a paycheck?

[00:00:22]

[00:00:22] Kyle Risi: Welcome to the Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. We're a weekly variety podcast where each week I tell Adam Cox all about a topic I think you'll find both fascinating and intriguing. We dive into stories pulled from the darker corners of true crime, the annuls of your old unread history books, and the who's who of extraordinary people.

[00:01:10] Kyle Risi: We give you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. 

[00:01:15] Kyle Risi: I'm of course your ringmaster this week, Kyle Recy. 

[00:01:19] Adam Cox: And I'm your, uh, clown this week, Adam Cox. 

[00:01:22] Kyle Risi: You've diverted. It's very fitting, you can be like one of the, the compendium freaks. 

[00:01:26] Adam Cox: I've been like the whole cast of the circus so far.

[00:01:28] In today's compendium, Adam, we are diving into an assembly of hit makers and Heartbreakers. The mastermind behind the music, 

[00:01:37] Adam Cox: is it Louis Walsh?

[00:01:38] Kyle Risi: Or from X 

[00:01:38] Adam Cox: Factor! Yeah, he's like the mastermind behind like, Westlife or something? 

[00:01:42] Kyle Risi: Okay, yes, true, true, true, but not quite.

[00:01:46] Kyle Risi: We're taking a trip back to a time when boy bands like NSYNC, the Backstreet Boys and LFO were the epitome of fame, success and fortune for many young millennials and Gen X Elders who were coming of age during the 1990s and the early noughties.

[00:02:01] Kyle Risi: Teens all over the world were captivated by the jet set lifestyle these pop stars lived, getting invited to the hottest events like the Grammys, the VMAs, and their clothes were on point. They owned fast cars, big mansions and above all this all came with that legendary pop star paycheck.

[00:02:21] Kyle Risi: But Adam, 

[00:02:22] Adam Cox: yes, Kyle? 

[00:02:23] Kyle Risi: What if I told you the reality was actually starkly different from what we were led to believe? What if I told you that being a member of one of the biggest boy bands in the world was actually akin to being a contractual slave, getting paid mere fractions of a penny on the dollar?

[00:02:43] Kyle Risi: And Adam? 

[00:02:44] Adam Cox: Yes, Kyle. 

[00:02:45] Kyle Risi: What if I told you as well that these bands and their fame were then used as a sweetener to convince investors into investing into one of the longest running Ponzi schemes in U. S. history? And behind all of this was a single man named Lou Pearlman. Known to those close to him as Big Papa and the king of the boy bands to the rest of the world.

[00:03:12] Kyle Risi: Lou Perlman was the man behind the biggest pop sensations of the 1990s. The Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, O Town, LFO, Aaron Carter and dozens of other groups just like them, 

[00:03:25] Kyle Risi: but as his career as a music mogul exploded, so did that insatiable greed, leading him into defrauding thousands of innocent pensioners and entangling hundreds of young hungry talented pop hopefuls into some of the most exploitative entertainment contracts that were ever 

[00:03:44] Adam Cox: Hang on.

[00:03:45] Adam Cox: So, pensioners? There's pensioners involved in this? 

[00:03:47] Kyle Risi: Oh yeah, like you would think that these people investing in these products were rich, wealthy people. They weren't. They were just these pensioners living in Florida. 

[00:03:56] Adam Cox: No way. So I, I'm not surprised that a lot of the boy bands or girl bands of the 90s and noughties Didn't earn a lot of money. It was like that in the UK, but I didn't realize about this Ponzi scheme. 

[00:04:07] Kyle Risi: Yeah, Adam, his Ponzi scheme was the biggest and the longest running Ponzi scheme in U. S. history. Running for over 20 years, this guy was a scam artist. 

[00:04:18] Kyle Risi: So Adam, today, I'm going to tell you the story of the man behind the music industry's biggest scam, reminding us that the glitz, the glamour, and the allure of the pop, of pop stardom, often hides a dirty, very dark reality.

[00:04:35] Adam Cox: Ooh, okay, I'm ready for this. 

[00:04:37] Kyle Risi: What do you know of this story, by the way? What do you know of Lou Pearlman? Have you ever heard of him before? 

[00:04:41] Kyle Risi: I think I'm getting confused with 

[00:04:43] Adam Cox: Rob Pearlman? Or Ron Pearlman? You know the guy that looks like a cat? 

[00:04:46] Kyle Risi: He looks like Keith. He looks exactly like Keith. Keith is the cat version of Ron Pearlman.

[00:04:52] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:04:52] Kyle Risi: He was in Hellboy, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:55] Adam Cox: Yeah, so we're not talking about him. No, we're not. That's not Dupal. No, to be fair, no, not a lot. I mean, I was never really into NSYNC or Backstreet Boys. Yeah. 

[00:05:03] Kyle Risi: Adam, that was my next question because I was gonna ask you. What was Muscley Adam listening to in the early 1990s? What bands were you fangirling 

[00:05:13] Adam Cox: over? Fangirling over? Uh, I probably liked Steps and S Club 7. That's kinda Adam, that's poor. Well, it's UK. I just wasn't into like NSYNC. NSYNC was rubbish. In my mind. 

[00:05:25] Kyle Risi: You take that 

[00:05:26] Adam Cox: back? I will not take that back. 

[00:05:28] Kyle Risi: For me, it was Backstreet Boys and nsync.

[00:05:30] Kyle Risi: Mm-Hmm. . I mean, for a while. I mean, I did dabble with Boyz Zone, but I mean, it was too cliche. Like who calls themselves a boyz zone? And then there was like that whole gay kabale thing. Was Stephen Gately ? I was very homophobic back then. 

[00:05:43] Adam Cox: I don't know if that was a debacle. 

[00:05:45] Kyle Risi: It was a little bit of a debacle.

[00:05:46] Adam Cox: Okay, but isn't it like odds are that at least one quarter or one fifth of every boy band is gay? It seems like there's a few that I can think of. 

[00:05:56] Kyle Risi: Name 29. 

[00:05:57] Adam Cox: 29? That's um, I don't know if I can name 29 boy bands. Well then 

[00:06:00] Kyle Risi: your, well then your theory is, is Bunk.

[00:06:02] Kyle Risi: There's that guy from, 

[00:06:03] Adam Cox: that guy from Blue. 

[00:06:04] Kyle Risi: James? Is it James? Duncan, Duncan! 

[00:06:07] Adam Cox: Uh, one of the NSYNC, I believe is gay. 

[00:06:10] Kyle Risi: Oh, Lance Bass. And he's cute, do you know who he reminds me of? I have no idea. He looks just like my barber. He looks just like Sam. Does he? Oh, okay. Well, you're gonna notice now. Get a picture up of Lance Bass. 

[00:06:22] Adam Cox: I don't know. This, I wasn't into NSYNC. So this is all about. You, of this episode, I feel.

[00:06:28] Kyle Risi: But I'm disappointed that you didn't have any posters or boy bands that you would kiss at night. No. No? Not even one? Not even steps? Nope. I guess I'm alone on that one. Yeah. I thought me and you were like ying and yang, you know? No. I thought we had something going on. But we have nothing in common. You kissed no posters growing up.

[00:06:46] Adam Cox: Uh, I might have had a Shrek poster. That you would kiss? Yeah, donkey. 

[00:06:52] Kyle Risi: Oh my god. But anyway, before we kick off today's episode, should we do all the latest things? Let's do it.

[00:06:59] Kyle Risi: Step right up and welcome to this week's All The Latest Things. Where we unveil the fascinating, the extraordinary, and the downright loopy stories, strange facts, and intriguing tidbits from the past week. Adam. What's your headline act today? 

[00:07:18] Adam Cox: So my thing this week is, very topical right now.

[00:07:22] Adam Cox: It's about the presidential candidates at the moment and the election in America. 

[00:07:27] Kyle Risi: Oh, yeah. Actually, how weird is that? Because my all the latest things is a bit political topic as well. 

[00:07:32] Adam Cox: Oh, okay. Anyway, 

[00:07:33] Kyle Risi: what have you got? 

[00:07:34] Adam Cox: Um, so, well, there's been a lot of news about the Trump and Biden in the news. Most recently with Trump and his assassination, his attempted assassination by that 20 year old. Which has sparked debate about whether that was staged or anything like that, which I think is ridiculous, because 

[00:07:49] Kyle Risi: Really? People think it was staged? 

[00:07:51] Adam Cox: There's some people on Reddit, and of course it's on Reddit, but I think people think, yeah, that he staged this to get votes and to win because it makes him look great, because there is that picture.

[00:08:00] Kyle Risi: And that's a risky game to make, because that bullet grazed his ear. 

[00:08:03] Adam Cox: Well, that's the point, there's these photos of him, just, with his fist all clenched and looking strong with blood pouring down his face. God, that's grim. But yeah, if he moved his head a few centimetres, then obviously he wouldn't be here.

[00:08:15] Kyle Risi: We wouldn't have a Trumpy. 

[00:08:16] Adam Cox: Yeah, and the poor innocent guy that died as well, so I don't believe in that. 

[00:08:21] Kyle Risi: The poor innocent guy? He tried to kill Donald Trump? No, there's a poor innocent man that died. 

[00:08:27] Kyle Risi: Oh God, tell me more. 

[00:08:29] Adam Cox: Well, he was in the sort of background and he was a casualty. Oh shit, 

[00:08:32] Kyle Risi: so the bullet hit someone?

[00:08:34] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:08:34] Kyle Risi: Oh, I had no idea. 

[00:08:36] Adam Cox: So, yeah, obviously that's been in the news, and that's a huge thing, and, I'm not really a massive Trump fan, but certainly wouldn't wish him any harm or anything like that. Well, I mean, that's what 

[00:08:45] Kyle Risi: people have got to say now, but rewind three weeks ago, a lot of people would be like, um, I wish he was dead.

[00:08:50] Adam Cox: Mmm, I feel like that's a bit harsh, anyway. It is 

[00:08:52] Kyle Risi: now, in light of what's happened, right? 

[00:08:54] Adam Cox: I think it's harsh regardless, you shouldn't be wishing anyone was dead. But that's, that's not really my news. It was going back a bit further than that with Biden being in the news. Uh, where he's caused a bit more of a kerfuffle where he's got his names wrong and all sorts. I don't know if you heard about this 

[00:09:11] Kyle Risi: one. No, I haven't. What's he said now? 

[00:09:13] Adam Cox: He was speaking of his achievements and he basically said, By the way, I'm proud to be, as I said, the first vice president. And the first black woman. 

[00:09:24] Kyle Risi: Okay, wait, so the vice president's true because obviously he was vice president too. Barack Obama, but he's, is he gone and confused between Kamala Harris? Well, 

[00:09:32] Adam Cox: yeah, he said he's the first black woman to serve with the black president. And I think people can read between the lines and go, okay, what he's trying to say, he's served with the first black vice president. Yes. Yeah. But yeah, so people are a bit like, Is he okay?

[00:09:47] Adam Cox: Is Biden all right? And this just kind of got me wondering, because obviously, the person who's going to be the president of the US has got to be pretty on it. I was listening to this podcast with a woman called Annie Jacobson, She wrote a book, uh, about what would happen if nuclear war broke out. Mm hmm. And, it's called, uh, Nuclear War Scenario. And so she did this huge investigation, speaking to different government officials, primarily in the U. S., because that's who she spoke to. And 

[00:10:16] Adam Cox: So there's different kind of controls in place in different countries. So, but probably there's a lot that does crossover to like the UK, Canada, wherever it might be. And she spoke about how, uh, the U S have built this, uh, system. And apparently it's one of the most advanced, that can detect ballistic missiles within seconds. 

[00:10:33] Kyle Risi: Yeah, sure. So they can kind of shoot them down. 

[00:10:35] Adam Cox: Yeah, well, first of all, it's to, it's to detect if something has been launched in the world. Yeah. And that's only from like land bases. It can't really detect if something's come from a submarine. Sure. So within a hundred seconds of a ballistic missile, which tends to be a nuclear warhead, the US knows about it. Right. And so that starts the clock. And the president is told around about three minutes after they're alerted that there's a ballistic missile heading towards the US. 

[00:10:59] Kyle Risi: Okay, so not a lot of time, not a lot of time. 

[00:11:01] Adam Cox: But they also have to fact check that they have to get like a second corroboration because I think there's like these detections on On the soil.

[00:11:08] Adam Cox: So I don't know where the sort of detectors are, but there's like, they have to do one to detect that there's one, uh, ballistic missile coming and two, they have to like double check to make sure they're correct. 

[00:11:16] Kyle Risi: I think it's happened before that there was a false alarm and it was a Russian guy who sensed, uh, a glitch in the sensors. 

[00:11:23] Adam Cox: Yeah, exactly. I think there's been a few false alarms. In the U. S. there's been a flock of seagulls or some kind of birds. Oh God. Mistakenly. Like set up the, the alarm. Um, there was also this incident, whereby they have to go through this training. So the people that are underground are sometimes shown a video of like a nuclear war situation.

[00:11:42] Adam Cox: And the footage was so realistic that they thought nuclear war had broke out. Really? Wow. a consideration, do they need to fire the missiles back? Wow. And when you're in the bunker, you're trained to follow orders. When you get the orders, you have to put the key in, turn it, press the button, no questions asked. 

[00:11:59] Adam Cox: And you have to do various drills. Uh, where you have to go through that process and you don't know if that's a drill or not. But the point I think is, is that you've only got, uh, like a few minutes to kind of do all this and the U. S. president has to make a call whether he retaliates. And if you've got someone like Biden, who is not of sound mind, it seems to be. How, how are you supposed to put your trust in someone like that, that's able to He'll be like, 

[00:12:24] Kyle Risi: fire the black women! They'll be shooting out like all the black women from cannons.

[00:12:28] Adam Cox: Yeah. And so it was just fascinating just understanding this whole sort of process that they have to kind of go through and how much time they have because in 72 minutes the world could be over. And if a ballistic missile is on its way to you, You have to choose to retaliate and sometimes depending on where that ballistic missile is coming from it could look like to someone in korea that a missile is going towards them Sure. Yeah. Yeah, and so they could then press another kick 

[00:12:53] Kyle Risi: start off like a domino effect of everyone Retaliating against each other and firing off missiles and then before you know it You That's it.

[00:13:01] Adam Cox: One wrong move, one wrong decision by someone who's perhaps not of sound mind. Then yeah. 

[00:13:07] Kyle Risi: Scary stuff, man. 

[00:13:09] Adam Cox: There was also this incident with Richard Nixon. Apparently he got drunk one time and threatened To start a nuclear war. And uh, some guy, head of security, phoned through to the bunker and said if Richard Nixon calls you, double check with me first. Because he's a loose cannon. Yeah, they were like, we, we just don't trust him right now. 

[00:13:26] Kyle Risi: Oh no! 

[00:13:28] Adam Cox: But that could just be like hearsay, but I like to think that's probably true.

[00:13:31] Kyle Risi: Yeah 

[00:13:32] Adam Cox: but yeah, that's my thing this week. 

[00:13:33] Kyle Risi: So I've got a couple things Real fun one. Has it ever been a moment in our history when no one has been watching because every living human Just so happened to blink at the same time Ex at the exact same time what yeah Well, let's see So humans blink around about once every four seconds and a typical blink lasts around about a third of a second That means that the chance that a particular person will be blinking at any particular moment in time is about one in 12 

[00:14:04] Adam Cox: Okay 

[00:14:05] Kyle Risi: Now the chance that a second person will also be blinking in that moment is 1 in 12 squared.

[00:14:12] Kyle Risi: So that means within 144 thirds of a second you would expect to find one simultaneous blink between two people. This means that you and a friend probably blink together every 48 seconds or so, roughly. We sync up. We sync up, yeah. But, three people will only blink together once. About once every 10 minutes, 

[00:14:35] Adam Cox: okay 

[00:14:36] Kyle Risi: Now you see the chances go down obviously the more people you start to consider So for example, if you had five guys, let's say the backstreet boys They will only probably blink together once every day or simultaneously Right, so you can see what we're doing in here, right?

[00:14:51] Kyle Risi: We're factoring it up now 22 people will blink at the same time once every six quadrillion years. What? 22 people? 22 

[00:15:01] Adam Cox: people. Wow, those odds or whatever, uh, chances are sky high. 

[00:15:04] Kyle Risi: I know, it's mental, So for eight billion people the number of years we would have to wait for a simultaneous blink amongst that many people is a number followed by 8 billion zeros. 

[00:15:16] Adam Cox: That's not a number that exists, right, in terms of like, you can't say that. 

[00:15:19] Kyle Risi: No, you'll be here for a long time. So it's pretty much impossible.

[00:15:22] Kyle Risi: So basically, we have never all blinked together, which means We're always watching. 

[00:15:28] Adam Cox: What about when there was just Adam and Eve and that way everyone in the world would have blinked quite a lot? Probably,

[00:15:35] Kyle Risi: but those times are gone now, Adam. It's a very different world now. Fair enough. 

[00:15:39] Kyle Risi: So, as you know, we've just had the election here in the UK. And it just so happens to be coinciding with the opening of Parliament for the upcoming parliamentary year. Now, of course, the big highlight of the opening of Parliament is, of course the opening speech from , King Prince Charles

[00:15:55] Adam Cox: king Prince Charles. 

[00:15:55] Kyle Risi: King Prince Charles. Yeah, that's his name, official name. And of course, we'll see him in all his robes, he'll be wearing the imperial crown, and he'll be outlining the agenda and the policies of the government for this year.

[00:16:06] Kyle Risi: And of course, this year's ceremony is a big deal because of course, we now have a new Labour government and people are keen to see what they've got planned.

[00:16:13] Kyle Risi: But what I want to talk about is the pomp and pageantry around this event, specifically the role of the King's aide called Black Rod, who has a door slammed in his face on purpose. 

[00:16:28] Adam Cox: Um, what? 

[00:16:30] Kyle Risi: So apparently this dates back to king edward iii back in 1305, right? So the medieval period So this person is called black rod and he is supposed to walk up to the parliament chamber door and someone is supposed to ceremonially slam the door in his face, which is supposed to signify the commons Independence from the monarchy.

[00:16:48] Kyle Risi: So when they slam it, it's like saying keep out King Prince Charles And they still do that pretty much every every year And of course, once the door is slammed in Black Rod's face, Black Rod, who can be anyone, it can be like a female or man, they're just dressed ceremonially in this outfit.

[00:17:03] Adam Cox: Right out of chaos and say who, yeah, anyone can be them. 

[00:17:06] Kyle Risi: So they then knock on the door of the Commons Chamber with their The black rod that they're holding, which is like a walking cane essentially, and then the door is open and then black rod will then announce that the king commands everyone's presence in the house of lords, and then he will deliver his king's speech, and that is what happens, and that's what happened just yesterday.

[00:17:25] Adam Cox: I just, I mean, this has been going on for like 700 odd years. Mm hmm. Maybe. Maybe we just don't need to do this anymore. 

[00:17:32] Kyle Risi: Get this, there's another bit of pom pageantry that I just love. so before the king comes to parliament, And this still happens today. He will take a member of parliament hostage. What? And he will lock them in Buckingham Palace. 

[00:17:46] Adam Cox: So he physically does this or does he get some help? 

[00:17:50] Kyle Risi: Obviously, he'll get his cronies to do it. It's obviously a bit different today . So the hostage is invited to Buckingham Palace and they will stay there until the opening of parliament is done.

[00:18:01] Kyle Risi: But instead of locking him up he is obviously treated as a guest. He's given biscuits, he can have a gin and tonic. He can literally just walk around the palace. He's given a license to do what he wants.

[00:18:09] Kyle Risi: He is not allowed to leave under any circumstances until the king comes back to the palace safely. And of course, this symbolizes obviously the instability between the monarchy and parliament in the past. And it goes all the way back to Guy Fawkes. And It's meant to ensure that the king is not harmed as what happened to, uh, Charles the first just before the reformation where he was executed. 

[00:18:32] Kyle Risi: So this is a kind of a way of ensuring that the king isn't then seized and then murdered or executed because we have one of their own. We've got one of their members of parliament as hostage in exchange. 

[00:18:45] Adam Cox: Right, so, this is so stupid. It is so dumb! So ever since this Charles I got, you know, executed, they were like, okay, so the government doesn't overthrow the throne ever again, we're going to keep one of you hostage. And did they used to actually keep them in prison?

[00:19:01] Adam Cox: They 

[00:19:01] Kyle Risi: would lock them up, yeah. But now it's obviously 

[00:19:04] Adam Cox: very different. 

[00:19:05] Kyle Risi: But, apparently, they also keep an SAS soldier on hand at Buckingham Palace to shoot the hostage if he acts up. Of course, that part is ceremonial but he's there. And the guy who previously acted as the hostage under Queen Elizabeth says that when he mentioned his anxiety to the head of the armed forces, The head of the armed forces reassured him that if anything happened to the monarch, they would act very quickly and they would just shoot him.

[00:19:30] Adam Cox: Right. I, I, I, what? This is just so dumb. 

[00:19:36] Kyle Risi: It's crazy, and he wasn't kidding either. Obviously all of this is just ceremonial, but it's nuts that we still do all this pomp. And I personally think it's amazing. 

[00:19:46] Adam Cox: Is it like, oh, if we don't do it, something could go wrong? And we've been doing it for this long that, you know, it's kind of like, we don't want to jinx it.

[00:19:52] Kyle Risi: No, I think it's just because it's just tradition. We're so, we're so heavy on tradition when it comes to the royal family that they just keep doing 

[00:19:59] Adam Cox: it. We're slamming a door in Black 

[00:20:00] Kyle Risi: Rod's face. Yeah. And that was only the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more that they do, which we can't go into, because that's all the latest things.

[00:20:07] Kyle Risi: So Adam, today's topic is actually perfectly timed because on the 24th of July, Netflix is going to be releasing their six part mini series called Dirty Pop and that is going to dive into all the hidden scandals and secrets of some of the biggest boy bands in the world. And I see that they're going to be doing a little bit on Mr. Lou Bowman, which we're covering today. So it's very timely. It's almost, almost. Like you planned this. Like we planned this. And it's out tomorrow? Out tomorrow, or the 24th. I don't know when 

[00:20:41] Kyle Risi: this episode is going to be released. 23rd is Tuesday. Okay, well, let's hope. If I can get my scheduling right, right?

[00:20:48] Kyle Risi: But yeah, it looks really good because they're going to be hopefully blowing the lid on some of the other dirty, juicy scandals and I'm just totally living for it. And if you obviously listened to this episode on release day, then make sure you check that out the day after because I just have a feeling it's going to be so good.

[00:21:04] Kyle Risi: But when I was a kid, I was the biggest closeted Backstreet Boy fan. Ever. And when I wasn't obviously running wild on the great African plains, Oh god. I was doing secret air grabs and popping my body in my bedroom. 

[00:21:16] Adam Cox: When I first met you, you used to like, when you used to go dancing, you used to like an air grab. 

[00:21:20] Kyle Risi: And a body pop. And I remember when we first moved to the UK, my parents had bought me my first CD Walkman and I remember traveling between Glasgow and London listening to, As Long As You Love Me by, Backstreet Boys. And I thought I was silently mouthing the lyrics, but when I looked up, there was this woman that was just chuckling into herself because I was actually 

[00:21:36] Kyle Risi: audibly mouthing the lyrics like the greased up deaf guy. From Family Guy. 

[00:21:41] Adam Cox: I wondered if it was like, you know those music videos where they get rid of the music. Um, Uh, Uh, Um, Uh, 

[00:21:46] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It was exactly like that, but I sounded a bit more deaf. And I just remember just sinking into my chair. And that was my, one of my very first memories of feeling so embarrassed. Wow. That will always stick with me. That woman's face. Just, but she was, she wasn't like laughing or mocking me. 

[00:22:01] Kyle Risi: She was like, oh, little kid. But to me, I was like. She told everyone when she got home. God, I hope not. So Adam, we're here to talk about Lou Perlman.

[00:22:09] Kyle Risi: So to sum up. Lou, from a very young age, was always a little bit of a grifter. So he was born in 1954 in Flushing, Queens, which of course is the same place as Fran Drescher from The Nanny. Did you ever watch that show? Fran Drescher? 

[00:22:22] Adam Cox: Yeah, no, I know the person you mean. 

[00:22:23] Kyle Risi: Do you know, I have the feeling that she inspired Janice's character from Friends.

[00:22:28] Adam Cox: Yeah, there is that kind of, there's a similarity there. So

[00:22:30] Kyle Risi: similar, like all the kind of the leopard print, the hair, the voice, the nasal knee. Or was

[00:22:35] Adam Cox: that just someone from New Jersey? 

[00:22:37] Kyle Risi: Oh God, don't say that. Maybe. I don't know. Probably. So he was always that kind of kid who just constantly lied about the stupidest things and as a result he was just a bit of a loser.

[00:22:49] Kyle Risi: He was just so desperate to kind of fit in but his bullshit never really washed with anyone and other kids just kind of didn't really like him too much. So one day Lou invites a bunch of his classmates to his bar mitzvah and he tells everyone that Art Garfunkel from Simon and Garfunkel would be making an appearance so he's a big pop star of the time And basically he told everyone that they were cousins.

[00:23:10] Kyle Risi: So obviously the immediate thought everyone had was that he was just saying this to kind of get people to come to his party. So they weren't really falling for it. So not many people showed up. The few who did were gobsmacked when lo and behold, none other than the real life Art Garfunkel actually showed up and everyone was really impressed.

[00:23:28] Kyle Risi: And following this, for the first time in Lou's life, he became incredibly popular despite obviously still being that bullshitting type, people just ended up just tolerating him more because of course he was that guy who was obviously the cousin of Art Garfunkel. 

[00:23:45] Kyle Risi: Now growing up lou lived near Flushing Airport where he would often watch the blimps coming and going from the airport And he started to become really fascinated by them and after finishing college He decided that he wanted to start his own blimp company where he would lease promotional space to various brands and businesses 

[00:24:02] Kyle Risi: So to get skilled up He goes off to Germany. He spends a bit of time with a major airship construction company learning all the ins and outs of blimps, essentially. That's pretty niche. It is very niche. And what's the ins and outs of blimps? I don't know. The air, um Packing it in a box. Make sure it 

[00:24:18] Adam Cox: doesn't blow up. Yeah, 

[00:24:19] Kyle Risi: I don't know. Making sure you don't accidentally fill it up with hydrogen . 

[00:24:22] Kyle Risi: Yeah. He'd definitely listen to our episode on I know he hasn't, hasn't been released yet on the Hindenburg, I was going to say, well, if you're a freak of the show, you'll know that on Patreon it is on its way. But anyway, when he returns, he uses connection with the German blimp company to convince a bunch of people that he was basically a blimp mogul.

[00:24:40] Kyle Risi: And once enough people were convinced, he set up a limited company called airship enterprise, and he closes a few local businesses to advertise on the side of his blimp. His first contract was with Geordash Jeans. 

[00:24:52] Kyle Risi: The problem was that he didn't actually own a blimp yet. But now that he had the money from Geordash Jeans, his plan was to build one.

[00:25:00] Kyle Risi: Okay. So he gathers a bunch of his friends to help out. They paint Geordash Jeans on the side. And once it was ready, it's launched up into the sky. But almost immediately, it comes crashing down into a rubbish dump and is completely destroyed. Clearly, he didn't actually listen to me. our Hindenburg episode because it wasn't released at that moment in time.

[00:25:17] Kyle Risi: If only you waited another two more weeks, but it was okay because as luck would have it, Lou Perlman had the foresight to insure the blimp for a whopping 3 million. 

[00:25:26] Adam Cox: And so he managed to get this payout. 

[00:25:28] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm. Suspicious much? 

[00:25:29] Adam Cox: I feel like sabotage. He did this on purpose. I think so. Maiden voyage of your blimp and it doesn't go well, but you just so happen to have three million to cash in on.

[00:25:37] Kyle Risi: Yeah, little insurance policy there. People did speculate that just based on what they knew about him, that he likely one and actually he planned this from the beginning. But he gets the insurance payout and he uses this to expand his operations at the airship international limited company that he set up.

[00:25:51] Kyle Risi: And part of this expansion is to move his business to Orlando, Florida, because he identified that the demand for blimp advertising there was rife with opportunity. He figured because there were so many theme parks like Disney World, Epcot, Universal Studios, Orlando would just be the perfect place to kind of have a blimp advertising business.

[00:26:10] Adam Cox: It's just filled with blimps, is it? 

[00:26:12] Kyle Risi: I think now. It would be but I think he kind of set that tone of like this is the perfect place to have it because of course there's so many businesses that want to advertise on these blimps and they do and he was right.

[00:26:22] Kyle Risi: He secures a contract with McDonald's and MetLife and he is paid around about 350, 000 and he becomes super successful and rich and he buys a nice big fat house, a bunch of fancy cars and he just becomes known as that blimp guy. 

[00:26:35] Adam Cox: Went to blimp school. 

[00:26:37] Kyle Risi: He literally went to blimp school. So , while all this is going on, Lou starts another company called Transcontinental Airlines. It's a private plane leasing business, but it turns out that the company only exists on paper and it never actually Owns any planes whatsoever. So to convince people that this is obviously an airline he has this little six inch Kind of model airplane with the words transatlantic kind of airlines on it and he takes to the local airport and he holds it up very carefully and he takes pictures of it as if it's Coming in and then taking off You So he's quite clever. And the purpose of this business is to essentially attract investors to whom he can sell stock options to. 

[00:27:17] Kyle Risi: And to make all this seem legit, he falsifies a bunch of insurance documents, which he shows to investors alongside his stupid pictures to kind of build up that confidence. And over the span of 20 years, he gets hundreds, thousands of investors investing in this fake business that they think is an airline leasing company, essentially.

[00:27:37] Adam Cox: So again, another sort of dodgy, dodgy operation. 

[00:27:40] Kyle Risi: That's it. Well, this is going to be the main dodgy operation that he undertakes, but I want to set the tone now. So you understand kind of the different types of businesses he's getting involved in. 

[00:27:49] Adam Cox: So it's quite a weird jump to go from what he's doing here with blimps and this fake business. Is it? They both 

[00:27:54] Kyle Risi: deal with 

[00:27:55] Adam Cox: like, their stuff. 

[00:27:56] Kyle Risi: Oh, you mean, oh, you mean boy band. Yeah. Sorry. That's the job. Oh, okay. Well, so in the 1990s, Lou is hired to transport new kids on the block on a number of their kind of tour dates. 

[00:28:08] Adam Cox: Okay. 

[00:28:09] Kyle Risi: And this is where he gets introduced to kind of the boy band phenomenon. He gets chatting to their management and he is just astounded by how much money they're making. And he thinks to himself, yes, I, I need that. I need that in my life. And he just becomes determined to build his own boy band. 

[00:28:26] Kyle Risi: So there's a lot of speculation about what his true motivations were So some people think that he wanted to be famous himself since obviously his cousin was already a star And he kind of wanted that for himself.

[00:28:35] But others said it was because he was a bit of a creep because over the years, loads of people, specifically people that were, in his bands had come forward talking about his inappropriate behavior apparently he used to kind of initiate wrestling matches with some of the young kind of kids in the band who would like he would also insist on kind of dolling out like really uncomfortable massages to some of the boys as well. Was he a homosexual? Well, we're not quite sure. Like it's very clear that he did have an affinity towards young good looking men

[00:29:04] Adam Cox: I mean, he's definitely crossed the line if he's their manager and he's giving them massages and Appropriately. 

[00:29:09] Kyle Risi: I mean it gets worse than that. Like he wasn't shy about being fully naked in front of them either 

[00:29:13] Adam Cox: Okay, that's weird I know 

[00:29:15] Kyle Risi: and There is an allegation that he showed some of the boys how to masturbate Getting them to kind of also then masturbate him in return because of course they were going on tour and he was like you're gonna Get a lot of attention from a lot of girls. They're gonna want to do sexual stuff with you It's best that you go in there prepared You And we 

[00:29:30] Adam Cox: have to show them, can you not just like look at a book? Exactly, 

[00:29:33] Kyle Risi: exactly. 

[00:29:34] Adam Cox: So, who's actually come out and said this about him? 

[00:29:37] Kyle Risi: Well, there's been quite a number of people. So, the first one was kind of Richard Crone from the band LFO. He talks about kind of how Lou Wood is just constantly trying to kind of bang everyone. He said this on Howard Stern's podcast, by the way. So, he talks about him in the Lorena Bobbitt episode. And I don't get the sense from hearing that recording that he was lying, because it wasn't like he had anything to gain.

[00:29:58] Kyle Risi: A lot of other people have talked about how He would often film some of the girls while they were tanning. And then he would use that footage to show the boys as some kind of weird way of bonding with him. So, it's quite creepy. He is 

[00:30:10] Adam Cox: a massive creep.

[00:30:11] Kyle Risi: In 1993 lou forms transcontinental records And under it he publishes an audition call in the local orlando paper Like apart from the demand for blimps orlando is also like the perfect place to attract a lot of top talent It's like home to all the theme parks and with those theme parks. It attracts hungry You Young talented people flocking to Orlando to try and land some of these jobs in these kind of entertainment businesses 

[00:30:39] Adam Cox: Yeah, Blimpson Entertainment, Orlando. 

[00:30:41] Kyle Risi: Everyone knows that. So this essentially just makes it the entertainment capital of the world Famously the Mickey Mouse Club is there, Which gave us huge stars like Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera, Ryan Gosling They all started their career there . So with thousands of young people coming to Orlando to make it big Lou just has to post an ad and thousands of already talented good looking young kids are ready to just apply an audition 

[00:31:06] Kyle Risi: So on the day they all meet at an airplane hangar that he hires And after a ton of audition rounds, he picks five boys to form his band And he literally has a magic formula that he is trying to apply to the selection process He needs five members each filling a very specific personality type like the heart throb The shy one the bad boy the cute young one and the older brother type, etc And on top of that, they needed to just harmonize well together and be capable of a kind of synchronized choreography.

[00:31:35] Kyle Risi: And today we think about boy bands and how this just seems so obvious, but back then, Lou perfected this formula, essentially, he was the one who defined what it was to construct a boy band, he did it really well. He cracked the formula. If anyone else did it in the past, it was just purely by chance or by luck but they never analysed what it was that made the perfect boy band. So 

[00:31:57] Adam Cox: did he, how did he come up with the formula? Did he ever sort of reveal that or is it just some kind of like gut instinct? I don't know. I think it was a 

[00:32:04] Kyle Risi: gut instinct. Yeah, I think he just studied it. He looked at boy bands that did really well and then he just applied it, and don't get me wrong, he didn't get it right first time. He tried to assemble loads and loads of bands, and it was a numbers game for him. But this formula came, was perfected through that, and he pretty much, through trial and error, discovered what it takes to build a brilliant boy band.

[00:32:25] Kyle Risi: Right, okay. So his final selection consisted of Nick Carter, 13, AJ McLean, 15, Brian Littrell, 18, Howie Dorough, 19, and then obviously Kevin Richardson, 22. Because they were all from, obviously, the entertainment circuit, they all kind of already knew each other anyway.

[00:32:44] Adam Cox: It's quite a gap though, between a 13 year old and a 22 year old. I didn't realise it was like 9 years, because one guy can go out and drink legally, and the other's Well, it should be embedded. 

[00:32:54] Kyle Risi: That's true. But I guess it also fit the formula, right? He was looking for that older brother type. 

[00:32:58] Adam Cox: Right. Okay. 

[00:32:59] Kyle Risi: So Nick and AJ and Howie, they were already obviously in a little cappella kind of group together and they would often perform little gigs in restaurants and cafes. Brian and Kevin, they were cousins and Kevin at the time was playing Aladdin at Disneyland and Brian already kind of knew Howie. 

[00:33:15] Kyle Risi: So that they were kind of all just connected anyway. But now that the band was assembled they just needed a name and Lou steps in and he decides to call them the Backstreet Boys which is inspired by the Backstreet Market that is a very well known outdoor flea market and hangout spot in Orlando.

[00:33:31] Kyle Risi: So the Backstreet Boys they sign their contracts they don't really know what they're signing and they all just get to work and Lou brings in a whole team of managers, songwriters, choreographers, voice coaches and they just end up working seven days a week all day every day. So he he also puts them up in these apartments very close together so they can all just end up bonding They eat out together almost every night, and he regularly hosts these barbecues at his mansion for the band and their families. And they all love him. Like, they are literally just one big, close, happy family. And Lou insists that everyone just call him Big Papa. 

[00:34:05] Adam Cox: Well, I guess they're really appreciative that he has picked them to be in a band. And if he's putting them up and feeding them and all this sort of stuff, Right now they think, well, we're going to be a pop star.

[00:34:17] Adam Cox: We're living the life, right? 

[00:34:19] Kyle Risi: That's it. And that's the thing. Lou covers all of their expenses, including their food, their clothing, and they don't get paid, but they do get like a 35 a day per DM, which is actually just money straight in their pocket. It's like their expense money. They can spend whatever they want on it.

[00:34:34] Kyle Risi: And they figure that when they finally make it big, they'll start to earn serious money. But for now, they don't want for anything. Like they're just so appreciative, as you just said. Life is amazing. for listening. And they live in the boy band dream. 

[00:34:47] Adam Cox: But if something's too good to be true, it probably is.

[00:34:52] Kyle Risi: Are you, uh, foreshadowing? 

[00:34:53] Adam Cox: I, I sense that there's 

[00:34:55] Kyle Risi: There wouldn't be an episode if there was no foreshadowing. No, and they lived 

[00:34:57] Adam Cox: a happily ever after. No, it sounds like they signed some contracts, but I don't think they read the small print. 

[00:35:04] Kyle Risi: No. So eventually, they are then sent to Sweden to record some songs written by Max Martin, who today is still known as like the king of pop songs.

[00:35:13] Kyle Risi: He wrote Baby One More Time, he worked with Katy Perry on songs like Raw, Teenage Dream, I Kissed A Girl, he wrote Taylor Swift songs, Shake It Off, Weekend, Blinding Light, Pink So What. Basically any pop song that you've ever heard was probably written by Max Martin. He's massive and he's still really massive today.

[00:35:31] Adam Cox: Yeah, there are some like bangers that he's written. 

[00:35:33] Kyle Risi: Oh! So with Max they release We've Gotta Goin On in 1996. Do you remember that song? We've Gotta Goin On? We've Gotta Goin On. Sing it. No, I'm not singing it. Oh, go on. No, I've got a terrible voice, Adam. You sing it. No, mine's worse. Well, the song flops in the US anyway.

[00:35:48] Kyle Risi: But it is very popular in Europe. So Lou is like, well, I guess we're going to Europe. and they release their first international album, self titled Backstreet Boys, and they book a 37 stop European tour, and throughout 1996, they sell 8.

[00:36:02] Kyle Risi: 5 million records, with hits like Quit Playing Games With My Heart, And anywhere for you and they are just superstars in Europe, but they're completely unknown in 

[00:36:10] Adam Cox: America. I had no idea about that. So they, they basically became famous over here first. That's right. Yeah. No way. I mean, I know they used to be on like SMTV or The Equivalent and stuff like that back then. But no idea that they weren't famous in their own country. 

[00:36:24] Kyle Risi: It's just crazy. And like their success just keeps coming. They released Backstreet's Back in 1997, again, in Europe, um, which reaches number one all over. And they just get mobbed by thousands of screaming fans wherever they go. But again, they're still unknown in the USA.

[00:36:39] Kyle Risi: And when they go home, they're like literal nobodies. Nobody even gives them a second glance. Which must be just so weird to rationalise. Like, you're getting mobbed by thousands of screaming young girls in the UK after you come out of Harrods. And then you go into Walmart and no one even cares. Guess who you are. 

[00:36:54] Adam Cox: To be honest, that might be quite nice because they always say like, oh, you get fed up of fame, but to be able to travel away and be famous and do that whole fame thing and then go home and just like chill out with your mom and dad. 

[00:37:06] Kyle Risi: I get what you're saying, but I think it needs to be the other way around. You're famous in your home country, and then abroad you're not, so that's, you can go abroad to get some peace? Yeah, maybe. That's more  valid, validating if you are famous, I guess, in your home, in your home country. 

[00:37:19] Adam Cox: Yeah, and the whole thing is breaking America, isn't it? So they haven't broken their own country. 

[00:37:24] Kyle Risi: What does it say about them? That's definitely not validating, is it? But eventually the US does take notice. So Lou preps the boys for their big American launch. They combine all of their most popular songs from their two international albums. And they release a debut album in America, which goes straight to number four. And to Americans, it feels like they just appeared out of nowhere.

[00:37:44] Kyle Risi: They're like unicorns because they just already seem so polished and perfect for a brand new band that's just sprung out of nowhere. Right. 

[00:37:52] Adam Cox: They've been doing this for like three years. Exactly. But 

[00:37:54] Kyle Risi: of course they've been brewing slowly in Europe for the last few years. So they were really well practiced already and US girls completely became consumed with their music to the point that their international albums Boomed even more because all the US fangirls wanted to collect all of them, 

[00:38:11] Adam Cox: These are the type of fans that just become hysterical that whenever they see them. They're like crying and just Uncontrollable. Yeah fainting 

[00:38:18] Kyle Risi: Probably. These girls are just unhinged. I don't 

[00:38:21] Adam Cox: know. I mean, they're young and they're excitable. But I don't think I've ever been that excited by someone or something that has made me want to pass out.

[00:38:29] Kyle Risi: I guess I never got the opportunity to do that because I was a closeted homosexual. So I had to keep that all bottled up. But I do wonder if I was allowed to liberate that side. Like, what would I have been like? I had to conceal everything down to just a quick kiss at night on my poster.

[00:38:46] Adam Cox: I mean, you're pretty dramatic now. So, yeah, I imagine that you would be. You've been 

[00:38:52] Kyle Risi: unbearable. 

[00:38:53] Adam Cox: Yes. 

[00:38:54] Kyle Risi: At one point MTV are being constantly inundated with fans calling in to request Backstreet Boys songs. But of course, they can't just keep playing them on loop because of course, 

[00:39:03] Adam Cox: You know, they have other people. They have other people that they, 

[00:39:06] Kyle Risi: exactly. But this actually leads, To a very famous show called total requests live where you can then ring up and request songs and they will just play On loop the top 10 requests that they receive for that day.

[00:39:18] Kyle Risi: And you've probably seen that street in new york where they stand in front of a big window And I think it's like facing onto times square and you see all the fangirls in the background screaming That's it pretty much 

[00:39:27] Adam Cox: and so they'll be playing like backstreet boys for like the majority of their show.

[00:39:31] Kyle Risi: And like, they would, it's view like Britney Spears or kind of big stars and stuff. And then you see everyone screaming in the background. But the thing is, though, you think that they can see in, they can't see in. It's just a mirrored window. So they, they would sit there and they would camp out and they would scream.

[00:39:44] Adam Cox: Because they know they'd be on TV, but they wouldn't be able to see anything. 

[00:39:46] Kyle Risi: But sometimes they just would like, The Backstreet Boys were in there. Right, okay. And they're just screaming at a, an empty studio most of the time. And themselves, basically. Yeah, essentially.

[00:39:55] Kyle Risi: So at this point they go on a US tour and they start recording Millennium with those massive hits like, I Want It That Way and Larger Than Life. Do you remember those songs? 

[00:40:04] Adam Cox: I Want It That Way, yeah. 

[00:40:05] Kyle Risi: Mmm, so just after five years, they have collectively sold 30 million records across all of their albums and they have made Lou Perlman literally hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue and there is no question that the Backstreet Boys are the biggest band in the world. But even after all of this success, They still haven't received a paycheck. 

[00:40:25] Adam Cox: How? How have they not got a paycheck? So they're being like, jet setted around, put up in nice places, fed, given clothes, they get their 35 a day or whatever, and they still haven't received a paycheck. 

[00:40:39] Kyle Risi: Well, Adam, you're not alone in wondering.

[00:40:41] Kyle Risi: They're sitting there wondering too. They know that a lot of money's been made. So why are they not getting paid? 

[00:40:46] Kyle Risi: So at this point, I want to take you back to a couple years after the Backstreet Boys were formed, when they were still kind of just starting to make traction in Europe.

[00:40:57] Kyle Risi: Lou was starting to see the potential in the group and he was getting more and more concerned that another group may try and break through and compete with the Backstreet Boys. So he says to a friend, why would I own Coke and let someone swoop in and own Pepsi when I can own Coke and Pepsi?

[00:41:12] Adam Cox: Uh, okay. That's smart, 

[00:41:14] Kyle Risi: I guess. Yeah. So in 1995, he starts to secretly hold auditions to form a new rival band. And he goes through the exact same process that Backstreet Boys went through. And at the end of it, he's NSYNC is born. 

[00:41:25] Adam Cox: Does he do this all on, like, I'm assuming Backstreet Boys do not know about this.

[00:41:29] Adam Cox: Mm 

[00:41:29] Kyle Risi: hmm. 

[00:41:30] Adam Cox: Wow. Someone would 

[00:41:31] Kyle Risi: be correct. 

[00:41:31] Adam Cox: What a piece of shiza. 

[00:41:34] Kyle Risi: Shiza bread. And just like Backstreet Boys, they work seven days a week, rehearsing non stop. He books them on as many gigs as they can. And throughout all of this, as you said, he keeps them a secret from the other band. Right. When both bands find out.

[00:41:52] Kyle Risi: They are deeply hurt, like, they can't believe that their manager would intentionally manage their competition and this breeds just a huge amount of resentment and rivalry between NSYNC who are gutted that Backstreet Boys are getting all the resources, they're getting all the better songs, and the Backstreet Boys, they're just really angry that NSYNC even exists at all.

[00:42:12] Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean Backstreet Boys always did seem better 

[00:42:15] Kyle Risi: to me when I was younger. They were just darker, more mysterious, a little bit more mature, whereas NSYNC, they were a little bit like, Oh, there's a bunch of hooligans running around, but you had to bang them all. Do you know what I mean?

[00:42:26] Adam Cox: I don't. Okay. I really don't. But that's 

[00:42:29] Kyle Risi: my impression that 

[00:42:30] Adam Cox: I had. They're like new, they're cleaner image, they're attracting probably a young, maybe slightly younger audience. 

[00:42:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah, yeah. It's like growing up when I had the biggest crush on Backstreet Boys, I was like, I really like mature men.

[00:42:41] Kyle Risi: And then eventually I was like, do you know what? I'm going to start dating men my own age. And then I started kissing 

[00:42:46] Adam Cox: more, uh, younger posters. 

[00:42:47] Kyle Risi: I started kissing a younger poster. 

[00:42:52] Adam Cox: Oh God, this is an insight into your mind, your life. I was not

[00:42:56] Kyle Risi: Oh, I'm sorry, Adam. I'm sorry. 

[00:42:59] Kyle Risi: So Lou starts poking the bear even more because he sees this rivalry as an opportunity. Because for the first three years of NSYNC's existence, they really struggled. They were just not on the same level as Backstreet Boys. So Lou figures that if he pushes this rivalry between them, he's going to win. The media will think that they're equals which in turn would elevate N'Singh's profile And it works, but it just makes them hate each other even more But it's smart what he's done like to try and elevate N'Singh's profile.

[00:43:28] Adam Cox: He's quite a shrewd Businessman then in terms of what he's doing here. Like what he's rich 

[00:43:33] Kyle Risi: and he's successful. So he must be doing something, right? Yeah, yeah

[00:43:36] Kyle Risi: But also what is crazy is that if the band ever did come together and just chatted just for a minute They would just probably realize that they shouldn't be angry with each other instead that they should be angry at him instead. But he just works really hard to keep them apart, for a whole bunch of reasons because also he doesn't want them to talk about money. He doesn't want them to talk about how they're being treated. 

[00:43:58] Adam Cox: So I'm guessing Backstreet Boys, they haven't seen a penny. And I'm guessing the same is for NSYNC. They're like, yeah, where's our money?

[00:44:05] Kyle Risi: Exactly. by the way NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys they are not the only bands that Lou formed as I said earlier on he created dozens of other bands just throwing anything at the wall to see what would stick and in effect he was literally running a boy band manufacturing factory And it wasn't just boy bands, it was girl bands too, like Britney Spears was in one of his groups called Innocence, have you ever heard of them?

[00:44:30] Kyle Risi: No. So Britney's mum realized that he was dodgy very early so for a very short period of time, she was in Innocence. 

[00:44:38] Adam Cox: What are the, um, any other sort of famous bands that we know of? Yes, 

[00:44:41] Kyle Risi: so there was, LFO, O Town was another one. O Town rings a bell. Aaron Carter was another one. That's Nick Carter's younger brother. He was a little solo artist as well. Quite a number of them.

[00:44:51] Kyle Risi: Most of the bands he made didn't succeed. But some did. But none of them were ever as big as the Backstreet Boys or NSYNC at this point. But then, one day, the Backstreet Boys cancels an appearance at a show that they're booked on, and in their place, Lou sends NSYNC, and this is the moment they take off, because millions of teenage girls instantly see them, and then they divide themselves into either Team NSYNC or Team Backstreet Boys.

[00:45:18] Kyle Risi: And as a result of this sudden kind of boom in their fame, they go on an international tour and they release a new album. Including hits like Tearing Up My Heart and I Want You Back. And that album goes to number two in the charts. And of course, the Backstreet Boys are pissed. Because their first album.

[00:45:35] Adam Cox: It's number four, wasn't 

[00:45:36] Kyle Risi: it? Got to number four. So they're annoyed. 

[00:45:38] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:45:39] Kyle Risi: So Just like Backstreet Boys and NSYNC were on the same kind of system where all their expenses were being paid for by loose. Similarly, The understanding was once they make it big, they'll finally kind of get a big fat paycheck. And just like the Backstreet Boys, Lou sensed that they were beginning to become incensed about the whole situation because they could essentially see the profits that the band was bringing in, but they weren't getting any of it.

[00:46:03] Kyle Risi: So to get ahead of this, Lou sends Ensign and their entire family an invite to a big fancy dinner and it's understood that this is the moment that they are finally going to get paid for all the hard work that they've done over the years. 

[00:46:17] Adam Cox: So what's made them think that just an invitation or they kind of think, oh, this must be it.

[00:46:20] Kyle Risi: I think there's been murmurings and discussions. So they're all speculating how much they might receive. At a minimum, they think it's maybe a million dollars each, but probably between 5 to 10 million dollars based on the sales that the albums have made. 

[00:46:35] Kyle Risi: So they arrive at the dinner and they walk into the dining room and they see a silver cloche on each of the kind of set placings where they're sitting with a big fancy envelope underneath.

[00:46:45] Kyle Risi: They are literally salivating with anticipation. When they open up the envelope. It's a mere check for ten thousand dollars Their hearts immediately sink. They do not want to come across obviously as ungrateful But considering all the years that they put in the countless hours that they have slogged ten thousand dollars didn't even cover minimum wage And they're confused.

[00:47:07] Kyle Risi: They're angry and they realize in that moment that they're being scammed they are so miffed that later back at the hotel Lance just rips up his cheque, he doesn't even want it. 

[00:47:18] Adam Cox: Yeah, because you're kind of like, great, 10, 000, so is this for what, yesterday's work?

[00:47:22] Adam Cox: Exactly! Or Sunday's work? Yeah, yeah. 

[00:47:23] Kyle Risi: Oh, the rest is going to come to me later, right? No, that was it. So a little while later, the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC are set to play against each other at a charity basketball game.

[00:47:33] Kyle Risi: Now, this is a massive deal. Essentially, remember, they're mortal enemies. But since it's for charity, they decide that they're going to put their differences aside for the day. And after the game, they all go to McDonald's for dinner, they get chatting, and the topic of payment comes up. And they discover that Lou did the same thing to the Backstreet Boys, paying them a pathetic 10, 000 despite making him literally hundreds of millions of dollars.

[00:47:57] Adam Cox: Why are they still doing this? I guess it's very easy to walk away of fame and they perhaps still think they are going to get something. 

[00:48:04] Kyle Risi: But they've been doing 

[00:48:05] Adam Cox: this for years and have no money. 

[00:48:07] Kyle Risi: They're hopeful and they're grateful for the opportunity, but The end of the day they need money.

[00:48:13] Kyle Risi: So in response both groups decide that we need to get a lawyer to look through our contracts and when they do the lawyers point Out that these are some of the worst managerial entertainment contracts that they've ever seen in their entire lives. Their contracts state that lu was entitled to payment in three ways as their manager as the head of the record company and As the sixth member of each group.

[00:48:34] Kyle Risi: I know. 

[00:48:37] Adam Cox: I didn't remember seeing him on any posters. 

[00:48:39] Kyle Risi: Exactly, so basically Were you kissing 

[00:48:40] Adam Cox: him? HAHAHAHAHAHA 

[00:48:42] Kyle Risi: No! So for the Backstreet Boys, the members were technically Nick, Brian, Howie, Kevin, AJ, and Lou. 

[00:48:49] Adam Cox: Hmm. Gross. Yeah, and he was in two bands at the same time. 

[00:48:54] Kyle Risi: But do you understand what that means? 

[00:48:55] Kyle Risi: It also means that he cut himself a check for 10, 000. No way. What a piece of shit. 

[00:49:00] Adam Cox: As well as all the millions. As well as 

[00:49:01] Kyle Risi: all the millions, yeah. It gets worse. The contracts also included a recoupable, which basically means that all their expenses, all the rehearsals, all the voice coaches, the hotels, the rent, it's There are apartments, flights, fancy dinners that Lou had treated them to, saying thank you, literally everything.

[00:49:19] Kyle Risi: The band was actually painful out of their future profits. Essentially, they were now massively indebted to Lou. So they had to keep working in order to pay that off. 

[00:49:29] Adam Cox: Were these like a thank you dinner that he took them out? 

[00:49:32] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:49:33] Adam Cox: Whatever it might have been. And they actually were just, it's basically a loan.

[00:49:36] Adam Cox: They were basically just spending on a credit card. I'll put 

[00:49:38] Kyle Risi: this on, I'll put this on account and then, well, all that money that their profits have already made has already been spent. So it comes out of future profits. 

[00:49:45] Adam Cox: Wow. 

[00:49:46] Kyle Risi: That is crazy. It's disgusting. So their lawyer starts looking through their contract for a loophole to get out and they discover, amazingly, that it states that if trans continental records didn't sign them to an American label within a certain period of time, then the record, then the contract would be void.

[00:50:02] Kyle Risi: And because they were signed to a German label, They could technically get out on a technicality and force Lou to renegotiate their contract because that's what they want. They want to renegotiate their contract with Lou and stay with him as NSYNC. Really? They still want to stay with him? At that moment in time, I think just the realization of what, what he's done hasn't really properly sunk in.

[00:50:23] Kyle Risi: I know, 

[00:50:23] Adam Cox: but he has like screwed you out of money and yet you're like, okay, we just want better terms. But I guess he's obviously been, you know, they wouldn't be famous if it wasn't for him. Could you trust him? No, absolutely 

[00:50:34] Kyle Risi: not. So when they point this out to Lou He refuses to negotiate and he starts pulling the I made you card. You'll be nothing without me I sacrificed everything to make you and all that bloody nonsense. Did he sacrifice everything? I don't think so Well, I mean he paid for everything up front So he kind of did but it's blimp money, but like it but he's greedy, right? He doesn't need all that money He could easily share and still be a very wealthy man.

[00:50:56] Kyle Risi: Yeah You And the thing is though, like, while fame is great, like, it's not tangible, being famous doesn't pay your bills or put food on the table, and while the guilt might have settled in for a moment they decide that they're going to execute this loophole rather than try and negotiate and they want to exit the band. 

[00:51:12] Kyle Risi: Lou of course isn't having any of this and he files a massive 150 million dollar lawsuit and takes steps to try and sue them for breach of contract, loss of future earnings, and he also wants to prevent them from being able to use the name NSYNC.

[00:51:26] Kyle Risi: And of course, remember, the band don't have any money. All they have is like a check for 10, 000 each. Well, I mean, not Lance Bass, he ripped his up. But all the others just have like a check for 10, 000. 

[00:51:39] Adam Cox: Do you think he's like, guys, can I, can you like sub me two grand each or something? 

[00:51:44] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so in court, the judge is like, let me understand this. Yeah. You want to stop these boys from calling themselves NSYNC because you are claiming that you are NSYNC. And Lou is like, yes judge. And then the judge is like, well my daughter has a poster on her wall of her bedroom that clearly states that these five boys are NSYNC.

[00:52:05] Kyle Risi: And the judge just eventually asides with the band and declares that their contracts are completely void. And how ridiculous they were even to begin with. The downside is. That they won't be able to get any back pay, but they were allowed to walk away and start again. Other than that, that's it.

[00:52:23] Kyle Risi: They don't get anything else from Lou. They get to walk away with a name and that's pretty much it. 

[00:52:27] Adam Cox: What about who, what about, uh, who owns the rights to the old songs? Is that still Lou? Can they sing their old songs or do they have to go a bit like, um, what's her name, Taylor Swift? Mmm, she parted ways and then re released all of her songs.

[00:52:40] Kyle Risi: That's a good question. I think what she done was very kind of, So I don't know if people did that back then, but I don't know who owned those songs, probably not them. 

[00:52:48] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:52:49] Kyle Risi: So they do go ahead, they do release their next album under Jive, but they change the name and they call it No Strings Attached, which is my favourite album. And the whole album, I didn't realise this, is a metaphor for how they've cut ties with Lou and they're no longer his puppets. 

[00:53:05] Adam Cox: Is that why they had that song called Bye Bye Bye and they're like puppets?

[00:53:08] Adam Cox: Mm hmm. 

[00:53:09] Kyle Risi: That's exactly it. Bye Bye Bye was their flagship song. 

[00:53:13] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's the only one I can really recall of that I think. 

[00:53:16] Kyle Risi: I'm disappointed at that. 

[00:53:17] Adam Cox: I'm okay with that. I think we 

[00:53:19] Kyle Risi: need to get you an NSYNC poster and you need to kiss it to make up for all the years that you didn't 

[00:53:24] Adam Cox: kiss NSYNC. I will have an NSYNC poster as long as we can stick Lou Palman on it.

[00:53:29] Adam Cox: Because he was, for at least four or five years, part of the band. Do 

[00:53:33] Kyle Risi: you know what, There are some pictures on Google photos with Lou posing with the band. So you could easily turn, like just put some decent swag on him and he could be one of the boy members. I imagine, Adam, he looks like Peter Griffin from Vanity Guy.

[00:53:46] Kyle Risi: Imagine Peter Griffin. In NSYNC. Yeah. With his testicles on his chin. 

[00:53:51] Adam Cox: I mean, you know, he, he knew the formula. Him and five young, attractive, but men. Yeah.

[00:53:58] Kyle Risi: So, of course, while all this is happening, the Backstreet Boys and other artists were embroiled in their own legal lawsuits against Lou And most of them were successful and they managed to expunge themselves out of their contracts And all of this all of this was very very public Like fangirls literally would camp outside of the courts wherever they were being held across the country And they would hold prayer vigils just cheering them on day in and day out.

[00:54:22] Kyle Risi: I know Teenage girls are pathetic. I used to be one. I know but teenage girls are pathetic

[00:54:28] Kyle Risi: And when it was all over, the Backstreet Boys, they go forth and they release their next album, free from, obviously, Lou Perlman, called Millennium, which features songs like I Want It That Way, Larger Than Life, and little Kyle Reesey, Bored To Train, with his CD Walkman, singing along to that hit, and yeah, sounds like a little greased up deaf guy, foreign family guy. And this album becomes their biggest album yet. 

[00:54:51] Kyle Risi: So, you would think, Adam, that they're about to get their happy ending, right? 

[00:54:56] Adam Cox: Yeah, well they're now broken free, they can make some money, hopefully they've negotiated a good contract.

[00:55:03] Adam Cox: But I'm guessing 

[00:55:04] Kyle Risi: You're wrong! 

[00:55:05] Adam Cox: Yeah. 

[00:55:06] Kyle Risi: It's now late 1999, early 2000s, and the boy band craze is dwindling. 

[00:55:12] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's all about, um, R& B and Garage 

[00:55:15] Kyle Risi: so yeah, the craze has dwindled and following their careers under Lou, they just never ever reached that peak again, which is gutting because essentially they lost out on all those precious few years where they could have made some serious money if only Lou hadn't kind of like been stiffing them on dodgy contracts.

[00:55:29] Kyle Risi: So after this, Lou keeps trying to create every possible pop group flavor, hoping that another one will stick. And what's wild is that even though this breakup is very very public with everyone in the industry knowing just how disgusting and dodgy he is People are still really desperate to sign with them. These kids are like it's lou perlman He is a legend. They're so hungry for fame that they just don't care and the idea is that They will just get famous now and just get the rest sorted out later.

[00:55:59] Kyle Risi: And one of the girl bands that he forms, she literally takes her contract to her lawyer and her lawyer says that , signing this contract will be career suicide. But they still go ahead and they sign the contract. They're just essentially grateful for the opportunity.

[00:56:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess, who else is gonna offer this to them? Exactly, they 

[00:56:19] Kyle Risi: might not get another opportunity. It's just sad. But even as he tries to create these new groups, Lou is finding the same thing that NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys are finding and that is their tastes are changing and kids are no longer interested in boy bands. So Lou Pearlman starts to struggle and his investors start to get worried.

[00:56:39] Kyle Risi: And these are the old pensioners? These are the old pensioners that we're talking about. As I mentioned earlier, these investors are the ones who had invested in transcontinental airlines, but only made more attractive by the fact that he managed two of the biggest boy bands on the planet. So when they all watched his legal battles unfolding in the media.

[00:56:59] Kyle Risi: They all wanted kind of out of their investments because they thought well everything kind of hinged on the success of these bands And if that's no longer there and you seem to be crumbling and kind of want to just maybe take just some of my profits out of 

[00:57:11] Adam Cox: Yeah The investment People get nervous like anytime like a bank crashes or whatever Of course, just 

[00:57:16] Kyle Risi: a natural thing

[00:57:17] Adam Cox: So hang on, did these people think they were investing in aviation or actually boy bands?

[00:57:22] Kyle Risi: so they knew they were investing in transcontinental airlines But they also knew that he also managed these boy bands He would kind of use it as a sweetener like oh invest in this i've got all these planes I hired these planes to these rich people etc, etc. Oh, and by the way, i'm also a music mogul as well It's just enriched his profile right

[00:57:40] Kyle Risi: and these investors weren't wealthy people They were mainly retirees in florida. And when they try to contact him, they heard nothing back from him. So the SEC start receiving a bunch of complaints and they decide that they're going to send an auditor to do an investigation. When the SEC show up at these offices, they notice something very odd.

[00:57:59] Kyle Risi: Even though the office is filled with people working, everything seems a bit dodged. Like, they all have their heads down, but nobody seems to be making eye contact with them. Like, you would look up from your desk, right? If someone walks into your office that you don't recognize, You want to see who they are and you want to wonder why they're there.

[00:58:16] Adam Cox: It feels like a stage, like the computers aren't on. Exactly. And they're just like pretending to type. 

[00:58:21] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Everyone is just really stoic, like, and they're just minding their own business. Some people are on the phone, but they don't appear to be talking to anyone. There's no calls coming. Really, they are faking it.

[00:58:31] Kyle Risi: Like, yeah. 

[00:58:31] Adam Cox: Hi, what's that? Yeah, I'll put an order. Yeah. 

[00:58:35] Kyle Risi: So also everything in the office just looks brand new. It was almost if. It's just being unpacked. 

[00:58:40] Adam Cox: So this is staged. 

[00:58:42] Kyle Risi: 100%. Later they discover, of course, that the whole entire office is staged. He had hired a bunch of actors just to be there for the audit because there wasn't a company. It was just him. 

[00:58:52] Adam Cox: Wow. I mean, he's done a good job in a sense of it's just him, but that does mean what a liar. 

[00:58:58] Kyle Risi: What a little pants on fire. So the auditors go through all the accounts and they find that every single penny that he took from investors. Every single penny that he took from the investors was misappropriated.

[00:59:05] Kyle Risi: In fact, the money was just missing. None of it even existed. They couldn't find it anywhere when they piece all the pieces of the puzzle together They discovered that lou was running a ponzi scheme and he'd been taking investors money promising them huge profits And when they wanted to get paid out He would just pay those investors with the new money that he would get from new investors 

[00:59:28] Adam Cox: right?

[00:59:28] Kyle Risi: And of course to keep the whole charade going he would just fake a bunch of account statements every few months and just send them out just showing investors how much money they were making. and Up until Bernie Madoff was busted in 2008 for his Ponzi scheme, Lou Perlman's scheme held the record for the biggest longest running Ponzi scheme in US history. It ran at him for more than 20 years and he swindled almost a billion dollars from investors. Many of whom were elderly investing in an airline company and the Backstreet Boys or NSYNC.

[01:00:00] Adam Cox: So where did this money go? Because if he's taken a billion odd dollars from these people and he's made all this money from the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC. But hasn't paid them anything. 

[01:00:13] Kyle Risi: He spent it. Was he spending it on? Like they thought that maybe he had bought loads of fancy furniture and artwork and stuff. But the reality was, all of that was fake as well, because when he finally goes to court, they're allowed to auction off a lot of his stuff, a lot of these elderly pensioners are like, great, we'll be able to recoup some of the money that he stole from us.

[01:00:34] Kyle Risi: When they go to get all the stuff appraised, they find that that most of it's fake. And All they can do is just sell it on eBay and it doesn't even earn them enough to cover barely a fraction of their legal costs. He must have 

[01:00:47] Adam Cox: like squirreled that money away in some offshore bank account. Possibly. Or something. that seems like a ton of money to be able to like, you know, spend. Mm hmm. And yeah, he's, I don't know, he feels like quite a smart man. He's devious. Do you reckon he's hidden 

[01:01:00] Kyle Risi: it in some kind of offshore account?

[01:01:02] Adam Cox: It feels like that. He's either like spent it on drugs and hookers, or he's, I don't know, or he's got a gambling problem or something like that, or he's definitely squirreled it away. 

[01:01:09] Kyle Risi: So, a warrant is issued for his arrest, but of course, Lou Perlman flees the country and no one knows where he is until a German tourist sees him eating breakfast at a hotel and says, Oh my God, it's a sick member of NSYNC.

[01:01:21] Adam Cox: No, he didn't actually say that. No, 

[01:01:22] Kyle Risi: he didn't, but they do spot him and they take a picture and they send it to the police and what is amazing is that in that same picture there, that German tourist took You see him eating breakfast and just sitting feet away from Lou Perlman are two FBI agents that just so happened to be staying at that hotel.

[01:01:43] Kyle Risi: So, had they spotted him? They hadn't spotted him. They were there for a different reason. Right. But they send the FBI in and it's those two that arrest him. But early that morning they were eating breakfast, like literally the next table along. 

[01:01:54] Adam Cox: No way. So they're on another mission or whatever, and then they get a call and went like, Oh, while you're there, can you just pick up Lou? He's just, he's three doors down from you. 

[01:02:02] Kyle Risi: So Lou is found guilty of conspiracy, money laundering and falsifying bankruptcy proceedings. And he is sentenced to 25 years behind bars. And the judge actually says that like. any money that you manage to repay back to investors, we will reduce your sentence.

[01:02:17] Kyle Risi: No problem. So that's the motivation for him to kind of go find the money, like take it out for wherever he squirreled it in. And, um, but he doesn't, he does though request that the judge give him unlimited access to a phone line and internet access so he can manage his latest boy band projects online.

[01:02:33] Kyle Risi: And the judge is like, lol, no. 

[01:02:35] Adam Cox: Yeah, sure. That's not 

[01:02:36] Kyle Risi: what we meant. We meant like go find the money. Fish it out and give it back to us. We'll reduce your sentence not make new money So lou serves just eight years before he dies of a massive stroke in 2016 At the age of 62 and what is crazy is that we never recover all of that money that he stole And they just can't find it out of the 1 billion dollars 300 million is still unaccounted for And so those pensioners know that their money is out there somewhere and there's nothing that anyone can do to locate it It's just Heart wrenching.

[01:03:10] Kyle Risi: Can you imagine if that was your mum? 

[01:03:11] Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean, does he have family that has got this money? I just, why would he keep that back knowing that he probably could reduce his sentence? Because 25 years, when he did get out, if he was still alive, he'd be, what, like, in his 80s? Yeah. So there's a chance that he might not even survive that.

[01:03:28] Adam Cox: So you would think he would try and do that. So he either has spent it all, or that money's gone somewhere shady. 

[01:03:36] Kyle Risi: It's heartbreaking. Yeah. But I, I, there's also plausible that he just spent it all. What? I'm just, what? I would love to know. I don't know, dinner? He was a massive foodie. Yeah, maybe. 

[01:03:45] Adam Cox: Chunky, yet funky. 

[01:03:47] Kyle Risi: Chunky, chunky monkey. 

[01:03:49] Adam Cox: Uh, yeah, what a douchebag. But he kind of, I guess, has got his comeuppance. 

[01:03:52] Kyle Risi: Mm. Well, I mean, he's dead now. Yeah.

[01:03:55] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I mean, 

[01:03:56] Adam Cox: he went to prison. That's what I meant. Oh, okay. Well, he's dead now. He's 

[01:04:00] Kyle Risi: dead now, hey. Um, yeah. So Adam, that is the story of Lou Perlman, the king of the boy bands. I 

[01:04:06] Adam Cox: I mean, it's quite a fascinating story and I just, it's strange to think that's where Backstreet and NSYNC came from.

[01:04:12] Adam Cox: I know, right. And all this drama. They were just pawns. They were just 

[01:04:15] Kyle Risi: pawns in this big machine that he was trying to run. 

[01:04:18] Adam Cox: I mean, it's such a smart idea to kind of go like, you know what, I'm gonna own the two biggest boy bands. It does make sense to do that. Yeah. But the way he went about it Not so good.

[01:04:26] Adam Cox: Shithead. 

[01:04:27] Kyle Risi: So of course, if you want to learn more, like we mentioned the top of the show, Dirty Pop has been released on the 24th of July on Netflix and it looks just epic because it's going to lift that lid on even more stories of young fame hungry kids being taken advantage of. So I can't wait for that. Yeah. I love it when a young kid gets taken advantage of. 

[01:04:45] Adam Cox: Not in a sexual sense. Yeah. Let's, uh, let's rephrase that. Um, what I was thinking of is there are a lot of UK bands that I think, uh, they, uh, were broke. I don't think they probably had quite the same bad deal, but very similar in terms of they just didn't make a lot of money.

[01:04:58] Adam Cox: Yeah. Where you think they would, but they just, yeah, it is that kind of, you get this access to this fame and that was maybe enough or people thought that was enough. 

[01:05:07] Kyle Risi: Oh my God, NSYNC are making a comeback. Are they? And I saw a little clip of them on stage. Just a couple days ago and Lance Bass, obviously, he's an open homosexual. He's living the dream. He's happy. He's proud He's got, he's dyed his hair bright pink.

[01:05:23] Kyle Risi: Uh huh. He's on stage. He looks phenomenal Okay, then there's the other four on stage. Who 

[01:05:29] Adam Cox: haven't had all the Botox They haven't and 

[01:05:31] Kyle Risi: they just look like dads and Lance Bass is just grooving with a bunch of older men and I'm shocked how well Lance Bass can move and And dance in comparison to the others.

[01:05:45] Kyle Risi: Lance Bass looks great. He was never my favorite, but now he's my favorite. What about Justin? Is he there? Yeah, he was there as well. He's like, got water on the face. He's a bit puffy. He's not sexy anymore. After when he did his solo career.

[01:05:58] Kyle Risi: Panty dropper.

[01:06:02] Adam Cox: I think we should round this up.

[01:06:03] Kyle Risi: There is also the Boy Band Con actually, which is the story of Lou Perlman. So that is actually produced by Lance Bass. And Adam it is so good it's got all the emotions in it various people kind of just share their experience of what it was like working under Lou and also they interview Aaron Carter and Adam he obviously he's like the younger brother of Nick Carter and it's really difficult to watch because it was very common knowledge within their family that Lou had molested Nick and their sister Leslie, who of course has since died. Uh, that's Leslie, I mean she died from an overdose. 

[01:06:36] Kyle Risi: But in the documentary, like Aaron, defends Lou. Like he's like, no, that is not true. That's disgusting. How could anyone say that? I'm like, you clearly in denial or you're clearly suffering from Stockholm syndrome. 

[01:06:51] Kyle Risi: That didn't warrant that reaction that you gave. He's clearly, clearly going through some stuff. And also he's clearly on something as well, because well, he's died, isn't he?

[01:07:00] Kyle Risi: He died in I think May 2022. 

[01:07:03] Adam Cox: I could was that I don't know what it was sort of linked to. I know he had drug overdose, I think. Yeah, I know he had some personal sort of problems and stuff like that. But, um, yeah, no, I didn't realize he, um, Yeah, like, Nick Carter got molested and stuff like that. 

[01:07:16] Kyle Risi: But when you watch the interview, out of everyone else's reaction, Aaron Carter's was the odd one out.

[01:07:20] Kyle Risi: Oh, one last thing that I'll end on. Lou Perlman used to own, very briefly, the Chippendales. Did he? 

[01:07:28] Adam Cox: Yeah. Why do I feel like this rings a bell? 

[01:07:31] Kyle Risi: Maybe because you did an episode on the Chippendales and you're like, why do I know that? 

[01:07:36] Adam Cox: It feels familiar. Yeah, I'm guessing it's after Banerjee.

[01:07:40] Adam Cox: I

[01:07:40] Kyle Risi: think it was very close to when he died. So it must have been around about 2008, maybe 2006. I'm guessing 

[01:07:45] Adam Cox: after, it must have been sold on or whatever, yeah.

[01:07:47] Kyle Risi: But yeah, if you enjoyed this type of topic Then we have a few other recommendations in our back catalogue that you might would like to, you know, revisit.

[01:07:55] Kyle Risi: So Chippendales was my number one thing on the list, because of course it's connected. But Sixto Rodriguez as well from Colfax, the man who inspired a revolution, brilliant artist from America, completely flopped, two albums, did nothing, absolute superstar. in South Africa, selling 25 million records, just incredible story.

[01:08:19] Kyle Risi: And actually his music went ahead and inspired a revolution bringing down the South African apartheid regime single handedly. Well, not single handedly, a lot of the black kind of native South Africans. I think they did that. But it inspired white allies to start thinking differently, which is just incredible.

[01:08:38] Kyle Risi: And then of course, The Village People, Episode 66, Disco Beats, Cultural Shifts, and Gay Icons. I really like that one. Yeah, that was fun. And then of course, Dolly Parton, Episode 33, The Legend Behind The Rhinestones. Do you know what we're missing from that? 

[01:08:52] Adam Cox: What? Cher. What, you want to do an episode of Cher?

[01:08:55] Kyle Risi: Yeah, why not? Let's do an episode on Cher. 

[01:08:57] Adam Cox: If you like Cher and want to hear about Cher, the fact that she, how she's going to survive the world along with cockroaches. That's so rude and disrespectful. How dare you? What, to cockroaches? 

[01:09:07] Kyle Risi: No, to Cher, liken her to a cockroach.

[01:09:09] Kyle Risi: You take that back. 

[01:09:10] Adam Cox: No, she looks great. She doesn't look a day over 35. She really doesn't, she's literally pickled. 

[01:09:16] Kyle Risi: I love Cher. But yeah, that's it. Should we run the outro? Let's do it. 

[01:09:19] Kyle Risi: And that's another episode of the Compendium Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please follow us on your favorite podcast app and leave us a review. It really helps us when you do . 

[01:09:29] Kyle Risi: Next week's episode is now also available seven days early on our free Patreon. For more content though you can subscribe to our Certified Freaks tier for access to our entire backlog of unreleased episodes. You'll get exclusive posts, sneak peeks, come along, join, we'd love to hear from you.

[01:09:48] Kyle Risi: We release new episodes every Tuesday and until then remember, not all that glitters in the pop world is gold. Sometimes. It's just a very cleverly disguised Ponzi scheme.

[01:09:59] Kyle Risi: See you next time. Bye.